Another fucking school shooting (this time a primary school) in the U.S.

[Delmar]

i reckon what will happen is that the automatic weapons will be banned again in the US, and life will go on. However, if you wish to look at the situation globally, here:

 

Homicide rates: Murder most foul | The Economist

 

Or you may wish to freak out. In any case, it seems to me that the US as a world power has had its peak. We in Europe, as well. Then, you can look at the more violent societies, and draw your own conclusions.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Canada has similar gun laws, moose hunting fuckwits, but surprisingly has homicide by firearm rate similar, and in some cases lower, to most developed countries.

 

Something tells me it's more about the American psyche than any thing else.

 

Media sensationalism and gung-ho fundamentalism towards anything that takes it's fancy has created a country filled with potential fruitloops.

 

Go to sleep America...

 

They don't. There are many contributing factors in these cases, gun control is certainly one of them and one that can be addressed if people are willing.

[brucespanner]

They don't. There are many contributing factors in these cases, gun control is certainly one of them and one that can be addressed if people are willing.

 

'According to Statistics Canada, this country’s homicide-by-guns rate amounted to 0.5 per 100,000 in 2011. In contrast, the U.S. rate for 2010 was 3.6 per 100,000, or more than seven times the Canadian rate.

 

But private gun ownership in Canada is widespread. With a ratio of 23.8 firearms per 100 people, Canada has the thirteenth highest rate in the world. (U.S. is at the very top)'

 

Gun ownership is, broadly, at a similar per-capita rate, it's 36% in yankeedoodleland, as of last year, legally of course.

[Guest ShoePiss]

'According to Statistics Canada, this country’s homicide-by-guns rate amounted to 0.5 per 100,000 in 2011. In contrast, the U.S. rate for 2010 was 3.6 per 100,000, or more than seven times the Canadian rate.

 

But private gun ownership in Canada is widespread. With a ratio of 23.8 firearms per 100 people, Canada has the thirteenth highest rate in the world. (U.S. is at the very top)'

 

Gun ownership is, broadly, at a similar per-capita rate, it's 36% in yankeedoodleland, as of last year, legally of course.

 

No idea why you've posted that, you said Canada has similar gun laws and they don't which is what I was responding to. It's far easier to legally purchase a gun in USA than it is in Canada.

[brucespanner]

No idea why you've posted that, you said Canada has similar gun laws and they don't which is what I was responding to. It's far easier to legally purchase a gun in USA than it is in Canada.

 

True, sorry, I was on the verge of a little nap and presented an inchoate argument.

 

I put up the statistics to show that they are in the same ballpark regards ownership, yet in different stratospheres regarding going batshit after listening to some goth tunes and blowing you collegiate to shit.

[Dougie Do'ins]

I'm not buying this. You won't get all the nutters, but you'll get all the people who keep guns lying around for their freakshow kids to pick up and use, and you'll get those people that are relatively sane when they buy the guns, but lose it some at point afterwards, and you'll stop the fucktards of the future simply walking into a store and buying guns. It seems to me that a blanket ban on private gun ownership wouldn't prevent all gun crime - criminals won't observe such a ban - but most of these massacre type crimes aren't committed by full-time hardened criminals, just sad self-obsessed mentals who see an opportunity to go out with a bang. In this country the sad counts will self-harm for a while, and either grow out of it, or spend their days looking for sympathy and attention on social media websites.

Looks like the NRAs message of protect yourself against guns with guns is getting though.

 

11-year-old Utah boy 'worried about massacre' takes gun to school

 

An elementary school pupil from Utah describes the moment a classmate pulled out a gun, claiming he had brought it to school in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook massacre.

 

The 11-year-old boy, who has not been named, was being held in juvenile detention on suspicion of possessing a dangerous weapon and aggravated assault after other students at West Kearns Elementary School in Salt Lake City told police he threatened them with the handgun.

 

He is understood to have told the authorities that the took the weapon to school to defend himself in case of an attack similar to last week's mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

 

Granite School District spokesman Ben Horsely said that when the teacher was told the student had a gun, she immediately detained the boy.

 

He added: "This kid made a mistake, and he knows it. He feels bad about it, and his parents are co-operating with the investigation. He will not be coming back to this school."

 

Source: Reuters

 

Video: Connecticut school shooting: 11-year-old Utah boy 'worried about massacre' takes gun to school - Telegraph

[Faustus]

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

 

Wayne LaPierre, exec vice-president of the NRA.

 

That shower should hang their collective heads in shame.

[Stu Monty]

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".

 

Yes, but do you know what can stop a bad guy with a knife, or a bat? Lots of things. Just punching him in the face might even work! So, you know, the gun's pretty much central to the whole "He's fucking shit up, someone stop him, Oh, too late, he's killed a dozen people" thing.

[Thants]

I reckon a tank would stop him too.

[Saintslfc13]

It seems to me that some of you are assuming that banning guns means that people intent to kill with a gun wouldn't find a way to get them.

 

How many of you got drunk before you were legally allowed to drink?

 

How many of you tried totally banned drugs at least once in your life?

 

There's always ways to get something, banned or not, and in America particularly we've shown that prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work with alcohol (in fact it lead to rise in violent crime), it doesn't work with hard drugs right now, and it wouldn't work with guns.

[VladimirIlyich]

The only way of getting these things done in the US is on a state by state basis and I'm sure there are already big differences in some states compared to others.

 

It seems a bit like pissing in the wind because the Yanks with the biggest mouths are also the ones with the biggest guns!

[Saintslfc13]

The only way of getting these things done in the US is on a state by state basis and I'm sure there are already big differences in some states compared to others.

 

It seems a bit like pissing in the wind because the Yanks with the biggest mouths are also the ones with the biggest guns!

 

This too (the first part at least), I'd imagine even if there was a Federal Ban on some firearms that as of now are legal to own many states would just introduce nullification bills (rightfully so in my opinion). In California, where I live though there is already an assault weapons ban and people still die from shootings quite frequently.

 

You'd have to get the states to go along with it and not every state would, quite a few states are already in the process of nullifying Obamacare (or at least portions of it) for example. I believe only 15 states haven't introduced some kind of nullification for Obamacare or part of Obamacare.

[VladimirIlyich]

Do the American people realise or even care how mentally deficient they look to the outside world(or at least their politicians?)

[markcd]

The only way of getting these things done in the US is on a state by state basis and I'm sure there are already big differences in some states compared to others.

 

 

Except, that Connecticut already has a ban on assault rifles, but as there is no federal ban in place, people just buy them out of state and bring them in. Also, it's like designer drugs to a degree - if the law bans a specific weapon, the gun manufacturers just make a slight variant that is legal. There is a good picture here, of 1 rifle that is legal to own in CT, and one that isn't. Could you tell, and would it matter if some lunatic was shooting at you?

 

[Evelyn Tentions]

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".

 

Yes, but do you know what can stop a bad guy with a knife, or a bat? Lots of things. Just punching him in the face might even work! So, you know, the gun's pretty much central to the whole "He's fucking shit up, someone stop him, Oh, too late, he's killed a dozen people" thing.

 

Just how does that tie in with their sacred Constitution?

Nation of right wing, armed to the teeth, fundamentalist fuckwits marginally less dangerous than Iran or North Korea

[Pony Princess]

Guns get a bad press but if I had a massive gun stashed in my sock draw which I could get if anyone pissed me off, I'd feel pretty good. I know guns are not big or clever, but they are pretty cool.

[Rico1304]

Has anyone looked at the numbers?

 

100k schools in the US

Say on average 3 guards to cover the entrances? 300k needed

Pay them 25k a year (would you want minimum wage near kids)? $6bn

Training and getting them a gun $5k? $1.5bn

 

Why not just save the hassle and buy back the guns?

Also, with a militia of 300k armed people in a school isn't there a slight risk a loon gets through the screening and kills the entire school.

[Saintslfc13]

Has anyone looked at the numbers?

 

100k schools in the US

Say on average 3 guards to cover the entrances? 300k needed

Pay them 25k a year (would you want minimum wage near kids)? $6bn

Training and getting them a gun $5k? $1.5bn

 

Why not just save the hassle and buy back the guns?

Also, with a militia of 300k armed people in a school isn't there a slight risk a loon gets through the screening and kills the entire school.

 

I hadn't but I'd be far more in favor of just allowing teachers/school staf that already own and are trained in the use of guns to keep one at school if they chose too.

 

I don't like the idea of "no one can have guns in certain places except policemen" any more than I like the idea of banning guns.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Almost everything he said in that press conference was retarded and can be ripped apart by anybody with a set of statistics and some logical arguments. Mega prick.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

It seems to me that some of you are assuming that banning guns means that people intent to kill with a gun wouldn't find a way to get them.

 

How many of you got drunk before you were legally allowed to drink?

 

How many of you tried totally banned drugs at least once in your life?

 

There's always ways to get something, banned or not, and in America particularly we've shown that prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work with alcohol (in fact it lead to rise in violent crime), it doesn't work with hard drugs right now, and it wouldn't work with guns.

 

What utter bollocks. You're in denial, sweetness.

[Elmyn Noos]

Saintslfc13 - you and people like you are the problem over there. It's laughable how backward you are as a people and a nation. You deserve what is happening to you.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I hadn't but I'd be far more in favor of just allowing teachers/school staf that already own and are trained in the use of guns to keep one at school if they chose too.

 

I don't like the idea of "no one can have guns in certain places except policemen" any more than I like the idea of banning guns.

 

Arm the teachers, good idea.

 

You fucking clown.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

It seems to me that some of you are assuming that banning guns means that people intent to kill with a gun wouldn't find a way to get them.

 

How many of you got drunk before you were legally allowed to drink?

 

How many of you tried totally banned drugs at least once in your life?

 

There's always ways to get something, banned or not, and in America particularly we've shown that prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work with alcohol (in fact it lead to rise in violent crime), it doesn't work with hard drugs right now, and it wouldn't work with guns.

There is a slight differance in getting booze to get drunk or drugs to get high legal or illegal.

 

To getting a gun to kill people if guns are legal or not.

 

If guns werent available then it is harder to get hold of one,and also it might take the idea of going into a school to kill everyone away.

 

How often have you heard of this happening in the UK where guns are illegal?

[lifetime fan]

US firefighters shot dead at blaze in Webster, New York

 

 

Two US volunteer firefighters have been shot dead and two injured while responding to an emergency call in the town of Webster in New York state.

 

Police said the four were fired upon in an "apparent trap" as they arrived on Monday morning.

 

The blaze broke out just before 06:00 local time (11:00 GMT) and officers had to evacuate nearby residents in an armoured car.

 

A gunman has been found dead at the scene, local police say.

 

The man was 62-year-old William Spengler, Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering told media.

 

Spengler appeared to have shot himself in the head, Mr Pickering said.

 

He had previously served a 17-year jail sentence after being convicted of killing his grandmother.

 

Spengler's sister is unaccounted for and police fear she may have died in the fire, which engulfed seven houses.

 

The two dead firefighters were named by police as Tomasz Kaczowka and Mike Chiapperini.

 

Mr Pickering told reporters: "These people get up in the middle of the night to go put out fires; they don't expect to be shot and killed."

 

The two injured firefighters were named as Joseph Hofsetter and Theodore Scardino.

 

They are being treated for gunshot wounds at the Strong Memorial Hospital and are expected to recover.

 

Police spokesmen said the area was "an active crime scene" but that no more shooters were believed to be present.

 

'Senseless act'

Two of the firefighters had arrived in a fire engine and two in their own vehicles, police said. One wounded man managed to escape but the others were pinned down until the armoured car could be sent in.

 

Police evacuated residents and firefighters were then able to return to tackle the blaze.

 

Chief Pickering said: "Webster is a tremendous community. We are a safe community, and to have a tragedy befall us like this is just horrendous."

 

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said in a statement: "All of our thoughts and prayers go to the families and friends of those who were killed in this senseless act of violence."

 

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman said: "The contributions made by the fallen and injured officers in Webster will never be forgotten.

 

 

The blaze took place on a small peninsula

"As this investigation unfolds, we stand with our partners in law enforcement to ensure that lethal weapons are out of the hands of dangerous people, so that the brave New Yorkers who risk their lives every day to protect us are not exposed to additional danger."

 

There were also two incidents of on-duty police officers being shot dead on Monday.

 

A policeman was killed in the city of Houston, Texas, after the driver of a car he pulled over opened fire on him.

 

In the midwestern state of Wisconsin, a policewoman on early morning patrol was found shot dead in the town of Wauwatosa.

 

The debate on gun violence in the US was rekindled earlier this month by the shootings at a school in Newtown, Connecticut, which left 20 children and six adults dead at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

 

It was one of the worst mass shootings in American history.

 

"There's a heightened awareness to this kind of violence in light of what happened in Connecticut," said Maggie Brooks, leader of the local administration in Monroe County, the area which includes Webster.

 

"We have first responders and we have families who are in pain and crisis today and we need to, as a community, keep them in our thoughts and prayers," Mrs Brooks said, adding that it was a "very, very difficult day".

 

President Barack Obama has promised to push for action on gun control while the National Rifle Association (NRA) has called for armed security in all American schools.

[Trumo]

By the rationale of that NRA spokesperson (and perhaps by extension, the NRA), it would make sense for firefighters and volunteer firefighters to carry weapons too.

 

As long as the gun remains an easily accessible and perfectly legitimate solution to any perceived problem or the whims of the nutter, the US will never deal with its gun crime problems. They'll just continue having absolute knobends profess gung-ho suggestions to make the people 'feel safe', never bothering to address the issue properly.