Another fucking school shooting (this time a primary school) in the U.S.

[TheBitch]

Provisionally penciled in for the 14th of Feb, is that OK?

 

Too far away. Can we get it sorted a bit sooner please?

[Stu Monty]

For heat of the moment wiring going faulty great, but your big mainstream lots of people dead shootings tend to be pre-planned rage against the machine, stick your goodbye video on you tube and chain up all the exits planned events.

 

You still aren't getting it.

 

If bombs or RPGs were in every house in the country this kid would almost certainly have killed more people. So would most of the other people in these sort of scenarios.

 

By reducing access you increase difficulty in killing lots of people. That's something worth doing.

 

Or, as I say, you'd have to extend your stance to the idea that legalising bombs and RPGs wouldn't make any difference to the damage done in future. As your stance seems to be, if people might be resourceful then we might as well have lots of things that kill more efficiently in every house.

[Cardie]

 

You still aren't getting it.

 

If bombs or RPGs were in every house in the country this kid would almost certainly hav killed more people. So would most of the other people in these sort of scenarios.

 

By reducing access you increase difficulty in killing lots of people. That's something worth doing.

 

Or, as I say, you'd have to extend your stance to the idea that legalising bombs and RPGs wouldn't make any difference to the damage done in future. As your stance seems to be, if people might be resourceful then we might as well have lots of things that kill more efficiently in every house.

 

And i keep repeating, guns should be banned in the US I'm not arguing that they shouldn't.

[Stu Monty]

I thought your point was that banning guns wouldn't change things significantly?

 

Are you making the point that banning guns won't stop all murder? That hardly needs saying Cardie.

[Nightcat]

individualism, social alienation, social schizofrenia and depression, violence culture everywhere 24hr a day 7 days a week, access to weapons and lack of any control.

[Evelyn Tentions]

The problem with banning guns in the US is that any sort of buy-back scheme would bankrupt the country (people aren't going to hand them back for free) and as the economy is based on "defence industries", unemployment would skyrocket, companies go bust, all those sort of things. Huge numbers of illegal weapons would still be around and since the cops mostly think Rambo was a documentary, there still be plenty of shoot-outs.

[md1892]

I see the Westbro baptist church are going to picket the funerals.

Westboro Cult Plans on Protesting Sandy Hook Funerals | Conservative News, Views & Books

 

Where is a crazed gunman when you need one?

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Ignoring the gun debate for a second, it really is now sad to hear the names announced and the pictures of the dead. Especially given those all 20 kids were either 6 or 7 years old.

 

Also bizarre that this cunt first killed his mum who he was living at their home with and then headed off to the school for the shocking massacre. Just so pointless and unnecessary.

 

Life can be a cunt sometimes, especially if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[zigackly]

If [...] RPGs were in every house in the country this kid would almost certainly have killed more people.

 

I had no idea Role Playing Games were so dangerous.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Was out on the piss last night for a mate's birthday when I forwarded him a text joke I'd received about this shooting.

 

Anyway, the cheeky cunt gets on his high horse saying I was bang out of order and how would I feel if it was any of my kids etc.

 

I felt it only prudent to point out that he was a hypocritical pious cunt because he is one of the very worst when it comes to texting "sick" jokes.

 

Jimmy Savile, Gary Glitter and Stuart Hall must have cost him a small fortune.

[Anubis]

Also bizarre that this cunt first killed his mum who he was living at their home with and then headed off to the school for the shocking massacre.

 

He probably decided, in his own fucked up way, that she cared more for the kids in the school than she did for him.

[Section_31]

Was out on the piss last night for a mate's birthday when I forwarded him a text joke I'd received about this shooting.

 

Anyway, the cheeky cunt gets on his high horse saying I was bang out of order and how would I feel if it was any of my kids etc.

 

I felt it only prudent to point out that he was a hypocritical pious cunt because he is one of the very worst when it comes to texting "sick" jokes.

 

Jimmy Savile, Gary Glitter and Stuart Hall must have cost him a small fortune.

 

Suppose it's hard to know where to draw the line sometimes, everyone is different, has his mrs just dropped a sprog or something? Or maybe using the phrase 'bang out of order' was his attempt at a humerous comeback?

 

People keep posting pictures on Facebook of one of the teachers who got killed as some kind of tribute and all I can think is 'fit'. There was another fit teacher on the BBC yesterday who'd survived and was talking about the aftermath.

 

But yeah - erm - bad business.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Suppose it's hard to know where to draw the line sometimes, everyone is different, has his mrs just dropped a sprog or something? Or maybe using the phrase 'bang out of order' was his attempt at a humerous comeback?

 

People keep posting pictures on Facebook of one of the teachers who got killed as some kind of tribute and all I can think is 'fit'. There was another fit teacher on the BBC yesterday who'd survived and was talking about the aftermath.

 

But yeah - erm - bad business.

 

His missus was there acting as a self-appointed moral compass.

 

She looks just like him, like Lofty from Aint Half Hot Mum.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Now it transpires that the mum didn't even work at the school and she was an avid gun lover.

 

All guns were legally owned by her and she even taught the cunt how to use them.

[Nightcat]

apparently according to the gun lobby, the solution would be for the teachers to be armed as well so they can shoot back at the shooter. You solve the gun crime with more guns. Yep. Imagine how safe everyone would feel if everyone was going to work armed with a rifle, a vest, a helmet and some grenades just in case.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I blame celebrity worshipping culture. When image is everything and wealth rules the roost, the ugly and failures become bitter and enraged. I also blame No beans in a fry up.

[Bjornebye]

I blame celebrity worshipping culture. When image is everything and wealth rules the roost, the ugly and failures become bitter and enraged. I also blame No beans in a fry up.

 

I dont think in this case it was anything to do with 'culture'. the lad was already a weirdo and having a mum who is equally as weird being one of them doomsday fuckers was always going to make it worse. they werent skint their house was massive in an affluent area as well.... but yeah.... i also blame beans on a fry-up. xerxes is blaming ian a*re. redderz thinks silverlining caused it. she may have also asked him what he wanted for dinner instead of tea. that could also be a driving factor and one obama needs to put right.

 

the worlds fucked.

[clangers]

apparently according to the gun lobby, the solution would be for the teachers to be armed as well so they can shoot back at the shooter. You solve the gun crime with more guns. Yep. Imagine how safe everyone would feel if everyone was going to work armed with a rifle, a vest, a helmet and some grenades just in case.

 

Just madness isn't it? The logical conclusion is obviously to arm the 6 year olds themselves, the NRA would love that, just think how many budding new customers they'd have?

 

So the solution in this tragic event would be to have a gunfight between the teachers and a heavily armed lunatic with body armour in front of dozens of young children.

 

As a country it needs to make it's mind up, the pro-gun lobby are breathtakingly dishonest to the point of denial with regard to gun ownership and the nature of the weapons available, it's a bit like denying smoking causes cancer.

 

If the US wants to have weapons of this nature widely available then it needs to accept that regular atrocities of this nature is the price it has to pay.

[Trumo]

To an extent, I can understand the viewpoint that it is not guns that kill people - rather it is people that kill people. Some might say it's the actual bullets that do the damage, but that is a mere technicality to the real problem.

 

Let's forget that constitutional bullshit about the right to bear arms etc for a moment. What the ignorant remain blinkered to and what the pro-gun lobby go out of their way to avoid is to face the real question: Why has American society got to a point where many still feel it is necessary to be legally armed for the purpose of self-defence?

 

It's not just the people themselves, but the government and media that really need to ask themselves why they've continued to create a culture of fear so strong that so many feel it necessary to be able to resort to such extreme measures to defend themselves whenever they feel threatened.

 

I just look at it sometimes and think that successive generations of American people and governments have just stuck with the idea of a 'boogeyman' in order to justify their faith in constitutional rights that may once have had relevance, but are truthfully becoming less and less relevant today in maintaining a civil society.

 

Without wishing to piss on anyone's religious beliefs, it is much the same thing as organised religion. There are some things from centuries back which still hold true for anyone wanting to live a decent life today, but so much of it is smoke and mirrors designed to instil fear and obedience among followers. That fear is stopping people from looking at life today with any semblance of logic or realism, because they've been conditioned to being shit-scared and unquestioning.

 

People are capable of doing stupid things at the best of times. Acting rashly and out of fear almost always results in dire consequences though.

[Whelan]

These type of incidents are not necessarily the issue - 85 people a day are killed in a gun related attack, upwards of 30,000 a year die from the bullet of a gun, cumulitively that is the real horrifying statistic. Those whose answer lies in arming more and more people are symptomatic of the problem e.g. everything can be overcome with violence - if he has a gun, you have a bigger better gun. It isn't the fact that they own guns which is necessarily the problem it is the fact that they see the gun as an option when looking for a solution to a problem.

 

The argument that it is not guns that kills people is a little bit disingenuous - the fact is that people with guns kills people. Lots of people.

 

The way that America is going - they will either deal with the issue now or, eventuallly everybody will be armed in 'defense' and people will be shot if they run out of fries at McDonalds, that shooter will in turn be shot by a passer by, who will in turn be shot by a freind, who will be shot by the Manager, who will be shot by someone else who is pissed of that their burger is tepid and one we go.

 

I think I read somewhere that America accounts for 1% of the worlds populate but accounts for 40% of the guns!

[Carvalho Diablo]

Now it transpires that the mum didn't even work at the school and she was an avid gun lover.

 

All guns were legally owned by her and she even taught the cunt how to use them.

 

That whore taught him up real good.

[VladimirIlyich]

I dont think in this case it was anything to do with 'culture'. the lad was already a weirdo and having a mum who is equally as weird being one of them doomsday fuckers was always going to make it worse. they werent skint their house was massive in an affluent area as well.... but yeah.... i also blame beans on a fry-up. xerxes is blaming ian a*re. redderz thinks silverlining caused it. she may have also asked him what he wanted for dinner instead of tea. that could also be a driving factor and one obama needs to put right.

 

the worlds fucked.

 

Couldnt they just live in a hut made of armpit hair and listen to Cat Stevens LP's while Morris Dancing like they would over here?

[Dougie Do'ins]

Just been a half hour programme on CH4 It was run of the mill stuff really but it'll be repeated on CH4 + 1 at 9.pm

 

Been listening to a lot of stuff on the radio today. Fuck me, the Yanks are very touchy about the 2nd amendment.

[Faustus]

Just watched that programme presented by Matt Frei on these shootings and this is something I feel compelled to write.

 

Mostly, I stay out of the serious stuff on here because the main reason I come onto this site is to switch off and, of course, talk about football- which is obviously completely insignificant when placed alongside something as horrific as these shootings.

 

Anyway, there have been a lot of thoughts going through my head the last couple of days about this and they were certainly present as I watched that programme. First of all, I'd wish to apologise if I offend any Americans reading this or any ex-pats who live over there because it's not my intention. It's a country I love, having visited there six or seven times in the past and spent a fair bit travelling around it. I've met some absolutely brilliant caring and intelligent people out there who I'm proud to consider my friends, so it's a country I've got a couple of ties with.

 

Listening to clowns from the NRA the past couple of days, one thing that strikes me as a dangerous cocktail when mixed with the second ammendment is the rabid brand of patriotism that it's somehow intrinsic to the American national identity. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with patriotism when channelled correctly as, for example, we saw during the Olympics. I'm personally not the most patriotic of people, but I take a 'live and let live' approach when it comes to things like that.

 

There's always been one thing that's struck me whenever I've been to the States though is the fervour surrounding the concept of 'freedom'. I've had friends whenever I've been over there ask me how I'm enjoying my 'freedom' and been asked if I'm enjoying my taste of 'freedom' whenever I've supped a pint and I've laughed along, joined in with the joke and given a bit of stick back, but I've always had a sense that there are serious undertones not too far from the surface. I remember explaining how the BBC works to one of my friends over there and she looked at me confused and proclaimed it to be 'a bit communist-y'. I pointed out that it wasn't as if it was North Korean state television and that it was funded by the public to cover a broad spectrum of public issues- like PBS on a much grander scale basically- but she still seemed totally baffled by it.

 

I've always thought there to be a really narrow minded view of how 'freedom' is defined over there and, with some, as if it's an exclusively American privilege that comes through all the 'land of the free, home of the brave' rhetoric. I can understand the constitution symbolising their own notion of 'freedom', but surely there should be no fear in debating the relevance of certain areas and whether it not it truly equates to a 'free society'.

 

The line that the NRA trot out after massacres that 'if people in the school/ the mall/ the cinema' were armed, then they could have stopped the killer really is laughable. So is their answer for everybody to be armed at all times as a potential preventative measure? Hardly sounds like a 'free society' to me. Quite frankly, it sounds fucking frightening. Same with the second ammendment- how many gun owners are a part of a 'well regulated militia?' The NRA should hang their heads in shame for the vehemence towards gun ownership in the immediate aftermath of grieving loved ones after all of these tragedies.

 

I know it's tasteless to quote from a telly show in a thread like this, but as Jeff Daniels' character in The Newsroom says, most of the fucking world considers themselves to be free. Over there, I think there needs to be a realisation that freedom isn''t exclusive to America and it can't be defined by things such as the second amendment when equally 'free' developed nations like the UK, France, Germany and Canada to name a few have much, much lower annual gun-related death rates.

 

I can remember a few years ago, Barack Obama got bollocked by the right on telly over there because he said something like: 'I believe in American exceptionalism the same way the British believe in British exceptionalism or the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism'. Lo and behold, he was lambasted by the likes of Bill O'Reilly for being un-American.

 

Sorry about sounding so blunt on this point, but I think it's time America had a serious look at itself from every angle- rhetoric, gun control, national psyche- and asked itself what kind of country it wants to be. For such a developed, wealthy country, the fact that incidents such as this are so commonplace is just fucking tragic.

 

Apologies for the Paul Tomkins-esque essay.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

That whore taught him up real good.

 

She was a Doomsday preppar as well. This gets worse and worse.

 

No wonder the dad fucked off.