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1 hour ago, redinblack said:

My eldest boy is struggling quite badly.

 

He has substance abuse issues, Ive spent the best part of 15 years trying various methods to address that, his depression comes and goes but the stuff he does is his way of self medicating and at the moment it is stratospheric in terms of intake and his depression is the worst its ever been.

 

I have tried everything, I have tried to get him counselling, good cop, bad cop, cut him off, smother him in love, he has built this fortress around himself and this wall of depression is something I just cant get through. The last counsellor I spoke to said " he will get better when he wants to", which is probably right but doesnt help me.

 

Im a fixer, a problem solver, its what I do for a living, but he is beating me all ends up here, I cannot drag him from the well of depression he is in and break the cycle of depression>gear>weed>depression. His depression is the single worst thing I have ever tried to face down, I can only imagine how much worse it is for him. 

 

 

I feel your pain. My lad suffers from it and has a lack of confidence although he doesn't seem to have any substance abuse issues and manages to hold down a full time job. He clearly isn't in as bad a place as your lad and I can only imagine the pain you and him are going through. Hopefully he will find a reason to get better.

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  • 2 months later...
On 30/04/2022 at 10:52, redinblack said:

My eldest boy is struggling quite badly.

 

He has substance abuse issues, Ive spent the best part of 15 years trying various methods to address that, his depression comes and goes but the stuff he does is his way of self medicating and at the moment it is stratospheric in terms of intake and his depression is the worst its ever been.

 

I have tried everything, I have tried to get him counselling, good cop, bad cop, cut him off, smother him in love, he has built this fortress around himself and this wall of depression is something I just cant get through. The last counsellor I spoke to said " he will get better when he wants to", which is probably right but doesnt help me.

 

Im a fixer, a problem solver, its what I do for a living, but he is beating me all ends up here, I cannot drag him from the well of depression he is in and break the cycle of depression>gear>weed>depression. His depression is the single worst thing I have ever tried to face down, I can only imagine how much worse it is for him. 

 

 

If you've watched The Wire, there is a lot of truth to the pattern of abuse where one will only start on the road to help and recovery when a person truly hits their bottom. This is why often people will seem to recover then relapse as they feel better and they have forgotten how bad it was before. Once a person experiences truly the worst experience, they won't ever go back to that.

 

On the other side of the coin, a person can only recover when they not only have something they want to get away from but also something they want to head towards. 

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10 hours ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

If you've watched The Wire, there is a lot of truth to the pattern of abuse where one will only start on the road to help and recovery when a person truly hits their bottom. This is why often people will seem to recover then relapse as they feel better and they have forgotten how bad it was before. Once a person experiences truly the worst experience, they won't ever go back to that.

 

On the other side of the coin, a person can only recover when they not only have something they want to get away from but also something they want to head towards. 

A good point Sir, from my perspective in the past I think he has hit the bottom - ruined relationships, lost jobs, driving bans, stealing from family, thrown out of homes repeatedly - but then he seems able to drag another low out of the toybox. When I think he has hit the bottom, it appears he hasnt. I guess only he will know when that is. I had a conversation with an acquaintance a couple of years ago, he was a heroin addict, went into Barlinnie for dealing, but that didnt make him stop. What made him stop was one day running round Glasgow trying to find smack and being blanked everywhere as he had no money and he had run out of credit. He had a Damascene moment, he said he just thought "this is just stupid". And it went from there.

 

Your last line though really made a lot of sense. I guess at this point he feels his life has nothing, given he has obliterated anything good he had. He needs something to head towards.

 

Thank You for this.

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16 minutes ago, redinblack said:

A good point Sir, from my perspective in the past I think he has hit the bottom - ruined relationships, lost jobs, driving bans, stealing from family, thrown out of homes repeatedly - but then he seems able to drag another low out of the toybox. When I think he has hit the bottom, it appears he hasnt. I guess only he will know when that is. I had a conversation with an acquaintance a couple of years ago, he was a heroin addict, went into Barlinnie for dealing, but that didnt make him stop. What made him stop was one day running round Glasgow trying to find smack and being blanked everywhere as he had no money and he had run out of credit. He had a Damascene moment, he said he just thought "this is just stupid". And it went from there.

 

Your last line though really made a lot of sense. I guess at this point he feels his life has nothing, given he has obliterated anything good he had. He needs something to head towards.

 

Thank You for this.

If you've never read 'Hope is the last to die' I would 100% encourage it. It's an autobiography of an Auschwitz survivor who if I recall lost his wife and child during this awful period of time and witnessed a high number of suicides from people in the same place. One of the most significant patterns was when rumours of the end being in sight with specific timescales (for example, rumours that we'll be out by Christmas this year) and when this didn't materialise numbers of people would give up. He went on to become a highly respected psychologist and enjoyed life to the full after this period.  

 

The knowledge that things will improve at some point is an important element of hope, rather than it will improve in a specific timescale. Impatience is one of the most poisonous qualities and believing a delay is not a denial is a great way of shifting impatience to patience.

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  • 2 weeks later...
30 minutes ago, skend04 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/depression-anxiety-cure-symptoms-vitamin-b6-b2125650.html

 

Watch for a run on Vitamin B6. Looks like nutrition could be one of the ways to tackle some part of the whole depression and anxiety issue in people. If the trial can be replicated in larger numbers that is.

 

I thought the stuff about psychedelics was interesting, they tested it under supervision (literally a psychologist in the room while you took them) and basically reckon it resets your brain.

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26 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

I thought the stuff about psychedelics was interesting, they tested it under supervision (literally a psychologist in the room while you took them) and basically reckon it resets your brain.

Yeah, the microdosing sounds promising too. Hopefully some of these treatments aren't too far off.

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5 hours ago, elvis said:

Just to throw a spanner into the works https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/20/scientists-question-widespread-use-of-antidepressants-after-survey-on-serotonin

 

Apologies if this has already been posted

 

 

 

 

 

They originally thought that the SSRIs worked because that increase reuptake of serotonin but its unlikely to be that straightforward.

 

Most likely the SSRIs cause changes or adaptations in brain function and this may be a knock on effect from enhanced serotonin functioning. 

 

There's also drugs like ketamine that seem to have an immediate and dramatic effect on resolving extreme depression but these drugs work on a completely different mechanism in the brain (glutamate and NMDA circuitry)

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On 19/07/2022 at 07:05, Section_31 said:

 

I thought the stuff about psychedelics was interesting, they tested it under supervision (literally a psychologist in the room while you took them) and basically reckon it resets your brain.

This is our last hope in treatment really as there's zero investment in finding new anti depressant drugs by the pharmaceutical industry because its a huge amount of investment and our current drugs on the market only work so well but not consistently across the population. 

 

The psychedelics had thousands of studies across 50,000 patients with amazing rates of efficacy from just a single dose with the effect lasting months if not being permanent. Things from depression to addiction.

 

Part of why they're so promising is that they allow a patient to see things differently and resolve problems which are the root of their mental health issues.

 

They also cause neuroplasticity (basically regeneration and your brain creating new connections to help us learn and break out of rigid patterns of thinking which are usually at the root of the problem) and an increase in BDNF which help the brain regenerate.

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5 hours ago, elvis said:

Just to throw a spanner into the works https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/20/scientists-question-widespread-use-of-antidepressants-after-survey-on-serotonin

 

Apologies if this has already been posted

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can only go by my own experience of using them for anxiety, they help me get over the initial 'shock' phase of anxiety so I can start to find other ways to relax. 

 

I personally don't think they're a long term solution though. Most of the people I know who've been on them long-term still seem depressed, much like most people on slimming world never seem to keep weight off. 

 

The elephant in the room is that most depression and anxiety is to do with the world we live in. How could you fucking not be? Admitting that though would be admitting the system is fucked up, and can't have that.

 

Smartphones, 24 hour news, sensationalism, insecure working conditions, body image pressures, lack of social contact, lack of social purpose, advertising and reality TV telling you how shit you are. 

 

Humans weren't meant to live like this.

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6 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Turned me from feeling down to suicidal. I appreciate everyones different and stuff but fuck that shit. "You should have stuck with it, usually takes a few weeks" Yeah tell that to the cunts who fished me out of the sea. 

Well I’m glad the cunts did. Similar to the bottle, the answer probably doesn’t lie at the bottom of the sea.

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47 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

The elephant in the room is that most depression and anxiety is to do with the world we live in. How could you fucking not be? Admitting that though would be admitting the system is fucked up, and can't have that.

 

Smartphones, 24 hour news, sensationalism, insecure working conditions, body image pressures, lack of social contact, lack of social purpose, advertising and reality TV telling you how shit you are. 

 

Humans weren't meant to live like this.

This is the crux of the matter for me!

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On 19/07/2022 at 06:34, skend04 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/depression-anxiety-cure-symptoms-vitamin-b6-b2125650.html

 

Watch for a run on Vitamin B6. Looks like nutrition could be one of the ways to tackle some part of the whole depression and anxiety issue in people. If the trial can be replicated in larger numbers that is.

 

I went to a fuck load load of professionals for my anxiety issues and I got some benefit from CBT and meditation. But still not really myself. Then I got recommended to a homeopathic type guy who told me to take B6, B12 and Magnesium supplements and I've honestly not looked back. Took about 2 weeks for me to notice but I was less edgy and felt more positive and energetic. I still get moments but I'm much more calmer and less reactive than I was. I suffer from GERD and have a condition called Barretts Oesophagus and anecdotally many people who suffer from GERD usually suffer from anxiety and depression. 

 

I realise this is not applicable to everyone but it could be interesting to some.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614299/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15671130/

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1 minute ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

I went to a fuck load load of professionals for my anxiety issues and I got some benefit from CBT and meditation. But still not really myself. Then I got recommended to a homeopathic type guy who told me to take B6, B12 and Magnesium supplements and I've honestly not looked back. Took about 2 weeks for me to notice but I was less edgy and felt more positive and energetic. I still get moments but I'm much more calmer and less reactive than I was. I suffer from GERD and have a condition called Barretts Oesophagus and anecdotally many people who suffer from GERD usually suffer from anxiety and depression. 

 

I realise this is not applicable to everyone but it could be interesting to some.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614299/

 

mm2-gif.112314

 

 

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