Depression

[elvis]

10 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

@Bjornebye and @elvis are you on or have you tried any meds to help you sleep and/or dull your anxiety rather than drink?

Yeah mate , I'm on 30mg mertazipine at night , at first 15 mg gave me a good sleep but now not so much  . I'm renting an apartment with a panoramic sea view most people would give their right arm for , but I fuckin hate it to be honest - it's soulless . I look at my future every morning when I wake up and my heart sinks . I also take propanalol for anxiety when needed . 

[YorkshireRed]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I wont touch anti-depressants mate after a bad time with them a few years ago. I've thought about cbd oil but don't know where to start. 

Give it a try, can’t hurt. If you don’t see it as a miracle cure then the very fact that you’re taking a positive step might just help halt the slide. CBD Oil won’t do that on its own but it might provide some benefits. 
 

You’ll find them cheaper but these are pretty reliable.

 
https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/jacob-hooy-cbd-20mg-capsules-60037895

 

Section is right though. Not all antidepressants are the same and not everyone reacts to the different ones in the same way. Some people have to go through it a bit to find the right one at the right dosage. Others find something that works straight away. 
 

Keep your options open, don’t discount anything including the value exercise, diet and finding/doing things you enjoy regularly brings. 
 

Massive cliche but it really is one day at a time. Try and get one decent day under your belt, then two in a row, then a week and so on. 
 

Again you know all this but I don’t half feel superior telling you it anyway. 

 

[elvis]

15 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I wont touch anti-depressants mate after a bad time with them a few years ago. I've thought about cbd oil but don't know where to start. 

I also had two bad experiences with them , one as 20 odd years ago the other 2 years ago . I can honestly say mertazipine has had absolutely no negative effects . I'm not as happy as a sandboy but definitely better than I was . Give them a go mate .

[littletedwest]

Grief is tough @Bjornebye. You may not even realise its grief. When someone you love is ill, you sort of live in the moment. After they pass everyone rallies around and you have funeral to sort so you're busy. Then it hits you ( or it did for me)

A female mate of mines mum died the other month, she's only 25 . But the way she was talking and showing anger about little things was so out of character for her. She's normally laid back as fuck but she's been giving her fella shit for every little thing. Anyway last night she told me she's back on her anti depressants and they're helping.

[Guest]

The four pillars of a happy life are LOVE, GRATITUDE, CERTAINTY and PRESENCE.

 

If you need any assistance in achieving any of these four things, feel free to ask anyone but me.

 

(You can ask me if you want, but I learned this from the writing of Dr. John Demartini and my life improves as a result when I think on these terms...https://www.facebook.com/drjohndemartini/posts/we-are-not-here-for-happiness-which-is-a-mask-were-not-here-for-sadness-which-is/10155074107725882/)

[Harry Squatter]

So I signed up, had a telephone consultation that barely lasted 10 minutes then got given a link to some program called Silver Cloud. 

 

Basically just their online program with a few questionnaires and general stuff you can find on the internet an a call off someone in 2 weeks. Absolutely fucking pointless.

[Section_31]

12 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

So I signed up, had a telephone consultation that barely lasted 10 minutes then got given a link to some program called Silver Cloud. 

 

Basically just their online program with a few questionnaires and general stuff you can find on the internet an a call off someone in 2 weeks. Absolutely fucking pointless.

Would you consider going private mate? It's not ideal but there's some good ones out there. The NHS and charity counselling setups are pretty lightweight. Charities tend to be testing grounds for student counsellors, while the NHS stuff is all about quick results, and by quick results they mean giving you CBT, taking your scores on a questionnaire about how you're feeling, and if there's even a percentage point improvement (real or imagined) they discharge you and call you cured.

 

The difference between a good and bad counsellor is immense. I saw one (free actually, self referral through talk liverpool which you can do online) and I felt we were on the verge of real progress. She'd nailed something that I hadn't noticed about myself (a form of very mile ocd based around things like shopping for watches and stuff) which she reckoned i was doing to distract myself from stress, but which conversely was making me stressed. She was gonna start delving into it but she got sick and they gave me a replacement. That one, based on my 'scores' said I wasn't bad enough to warrent treatment so she discharged me but offered me group art therapy with a bunch of other blokes where we could go and draw our feelings. Needless to say I politely declined.

[Harry Squatter]

31 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Would you consider going private mate? It's not ideal but there's some good ones out there. The NHS and charity counselling setups are pretty lightweight. Charities tend to be testing grounds for student counsellors, while the NHS stuff is all about quick results, and by quick results they mean giving you CBT, taking your scores on a questionnaire about how you're feeling, and if there's even a percentage point improvement (real or imagined) they discharge you and call you cured.

 

The difference between a good and bad counsellor is immense. I saw one (free actually, self referral through talk liverpool which you can do online) and I felt we were on the verge of real progress. She'd nailed something that I hadn't noticed about myself (a form of very mile ocd based around things like shopping for watches and stuff) which she reckoned i was doing to distract myself from stress, but which conversely was making me stressed. She was gonna start delving into it but she got sick and they gave me a replacement. That one, based on my 'scores' said I wasn't bad enough to warrent treatment so she discharged me but offered me group art therapy with a bunch of other blokes where we could go and draw our feelings. Needless to say I politely declined.

Wouldn't be in a position to do that at the moment mate.

 

Yes, it seems lightweight, basically for someone who probably is a bit stressed about upcoming exams or something going on at work.

 

I did have a counsellor about ten years ago, the doctor referred me to one without me really me toning anything. He was ok and it was good to speak about some things, then he left and there was no replacement.

 

Sounds like you had a good counsellor but got replaced with someone who wasnt arsed and saw it as just a job.

[littletedwest]

1 hour ago, Doctor Troy said:

So I signed up, had a telephone consultation that barely lasted 10 minutes then got given a link to some program called Silver Cloud. 

 

Basically just their online program with a few questionnaires and general stuff you can find on the internet an a call off someone in 2 weeks. Absolutely fucking pointless.

My mrs is doing that,  she's found it helpful and more stuff develops on it i think

[Tony Moanero]

55 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Would you consider going private mate? It's not ideal but there's some good ones out there. The NHS and charity counselling setups are pretty lightweight. Charities tend to be testing grounds for student counsellors, while the NHS stuff is all about quick results, and by quick results they mean giving you CBT, taking your scores on a questionnaire about how you're feeling, and if there's even a percentage point improvement (real or imagined) they discharge you and call you cured.

 

The difference between a good and bad counsellor is immense. I saw one (free actually, self referral through talk liverpool which you can do online) and I felt we were on the verge of real progress. She'd nailed something that I hadn't noticed about myself (a form of very mile ocd based around things like shopping for watches and stuff) which she reckoned i was doing to distract myself from stress, but which conversely was making me stressed. She was gonna start delving into it but she got sick and they gave me a replacement. That one, based on my 'scores' said I wasn't bad enough to warrent treatment so she discharged me but offered me group art therapy with a bunch of other blokes where we could go and draw our feelings. Needless to say I politely declined.

Could you explain more about your shopping for watches and how it was making you feel stressed?

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, Doctor Troy said:

Wouldn't be in a position to do that at the moment mate.

 

Yes, it seems lightweight, basically for someone who probably is a bit stressed about upcoming exams or something going on at work.

 

I did have a counsellor about ten years ago, the doctor referred me to one without me really me toning anything. He was ok and it was good to speak about some things, then he left and there was no replacement.

 

Sounds like you had a good counsellor but got replaced with someone who wasnt arsed and saw it as just a job.

Have a look at some local charity counsellors then pal, and/or self refare to talk liverpool. Don't give up on it though as if you find the right one it'll be life changing.

 

The most expensive aren't necessarily the best either. I've seen a couple at Rodney Street, one was 90 quid a go and she was nothing special, I saw one who was 20 quid and she was boss but she was too far away for me to drive regularly at that point (in Southport) she had me sussed in about 15 minutes though.

[Section_31]

55 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

Could you explain more about your shopping for watches and how it was making you feel stressed?

Ha.

 

It sounds daft writing it down but I have this thing about never being complete. I'm always after something, it could be a watch, a new wallet, coat or boots or something and I stress about it until I've got it. I'll stay up at night looking online for stuff or drive all over the place looking in the shops. When I've got it I have a brief moment of relief and then it's forgotten about. I have a few weeks of months respite then I decide I need something else. 

 

The actual act of shopping for them stresses me out because I'm aware of the fact that it's not normal, I start feeling guilty about it or worried that I can't afford it. It's not pleasurable.

 

This woman seemed to think it was a distracting technique, like I was wired to keep my mind busy with constant 'missions' to distract myself from something, some underlying worry or stress.

 

That's fairly standard for some forms of depression I think, a lot of people do it with booze, drugs or spending money, I seem to do the latter.

 

I had ocd when I was in school though, it seemed to get worse during holidays when I had no school work to do or nothing to destract me. So I thoght it was ingesting that she'd picked that up.

[Harry Squatter]

50 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Have a look at some local charity counsellors then pal, and/or self refare to talk liverpool. Don't give up on it though as if you find the right one it'll be life changing.

 

The most expensive aren't necessarily the best either. I've seen a couple at Rodney Street, one was 90 quid a go and she was nothing special, I saw one who was 20 quid and she was boss but she was too far away for me to drive regularly at that point (in Southport) she had me sussed in about 15 minutes though.

Thanks for the info, found your posts more helpful than the course I did this morning. Even that stressed me out as I had woken up in a good mood. 

 

I'm a bit skint at the moment so even a 20 quid one would be almost impossible. One of the things that has been stressing me out is continuous worry over money. 

 

Thanks for your advice, appreciate it.

 

 

[pauliescouse]

On 14/09/2020 at 21:04, Bjornebye said:

I wont touch anti-depressants mate after a bad time with them a few years ago. I've thought about cbd oil but don't know where to start. 

Hi mate, I dont really want go into it on a publc forum but CBD really helped me after trying to top myself last year.

I tried Sensi Seeds where I get all my seeds from - wasnt so good with capsules - then Anthony Fowler with SupremeCBD. The pipette method with SupremeCBD was a game changer. Its a bit different as you put it on your tongue for 30 seconds, bit like acid. The 1500ml helped sleep and (it took a few days like) helped enormously with anxiety and depression. Message him direct on twitter if you're into it, dont order off the site, he gives a big discount direct mate.

[Tony Moanero]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Ha.

 

It sounds daft writing it down but I have this thing about never being complete. I'm always after something, it could be a watch, a new wallet, coat or boots or something and I stress about it until I've got it. I'll stay up at night looking online for stuff or drive all over the place looking in the shops. When I've got it I have a brief moment of relief and then it's forgotten about. I have a few weeks of months respite then I decide I need something else. 

 

The actual act of shopping for them stresses me out because I'm aware of the fact that it's not normal, I start feeling guilty about it or worried that I can't afford it. It's not pleasurable.

 

This woman seemed to think it was a distracting technique, like I was wired to keep my mind busy with constant 'missions' to distract myself from something, some underlying worry or stress.

 

That's fairly standard for some forms of depression I think, a lot of people do it with booze, drugs or spending money, I seem to do the latter.

 

I had ocd when I was in school though, it seemed to get worse during holidays when I had no school work to do or nothing to destract me. So I thoght it was ingesting that she'd picked that up.

Thanks. I can relate to that.

 

I have previously struggled with addictions to alcohol, tobacco and food.

 

For as long as I can remember I have been obsessed with acquiring things that interest me, things that I believe I need. Clothes, footwear and accessories, books, records and DVDs, art, retro toys, stuff for the home, etc. 

 

I spend hours every day, without respite, scouring the internet for items, even though I know that, given my current financial situation (not working due to ill health), I won’t be able to buy them.

 

Previously, I would find what I wanted to buy, but as soon as I received confirmation of the order, I would move onto the next thing. On receipt of my purchase, I would occasionally be pleased with it, albeit briefly, but mostly I would find fault with it and obsess about finding and obtaining a better version. Sometimes, I wouldn’t even open the parcel, I’d just shove it in a cupboard.

 

I’m a perfectionist, with an eye for detail and scrutinize things to the nth degree, so things rarely feel good enough.

 

I used to stress over buying stuff and would feel guilty about the frequency and cost. I would fret over the possibility of there being superior alternatives that I was yet to discover. Nowadays, I‘m constantly fretting about not having the money to buy the things that I have convinced myself that I need and keep searching for and looking at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Section_31]

19 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

Thanks. I can relate to that.

 

I have previously struggled with addictions to alcohol, tobacco and food.

 

For as long as I can remember I have been obsessed with acquiring things that interest me, things that I believe I need. Clothes, footwear and accessories, books, records and DVDs, art, retro toys, stuff for the home, etc. 

 

I spend hours every day, without respite, scouring the internet for items, even though I know that, given my current financial situation (not working due to ill health), I won’t be able to buy them.

 

Previously, I would find what I wanted to buy, but as soon as I received confirmation of the order, I would move onto the next thing. On receipt of my purchase, I would occasionally be pleased with it, albeit briefly, but mostly I would find fault with it and obsess about finding and obtaining a better version. Sometimes, I wouldn’t even open the parcel, I’d just shove it in a cupboard.

 

I’m a perfectionist, with an eye for detail and scrutinize things to the nth degree, so things rarely feel good enough.

 

I used to stress over buying stuff and would feel guilty about the frequency and cost. I would fret over the possibility of there being superior alternatives that I was yet to discover. Nowadays, I‘m constantly fretting about not having the money to buy the things that I have convinced myself that I need and keep searching for and looking at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah can relate to that. The one good thing is that when I do buy something, or we get something for the house, it's usually good because I've done the research. 

 

It's funny reading this thread because it makes you realise we're all pretty similar, no matter how bad we're feeling we're all treading a fairly well trodden path and people know the way back.

[Elite]

Tony and Section would have been ace in the stone age, caves would be decked out with all sorts of mad shit. We are gatherers by nature but don't need to be these days so we end up collecting all sorts of shit we don't actually need to appease our primal instincts. I'm actually not too bad with that kind of stuff as I'm a tight cunt, my cave would be bare minimum. Maybe a few animal skulls as decoration.

 

[littletedwest]

On week 3 at my new job. Enjoying it a bit more, guys there seem all OK ( apart from one sly twat). Just feels a step down and I'm worried money wise. Also feels weird, after 17 years I had loads of contacts and people would ask me for advice, now I'm asking for advice on basic shit.

Sticking at the weights and enjoying it as I'm getting stronger every week.

Cut down on the ale, working all week so by next Friday I'll have drank once in 28 days. During lockdown it was twice a week minimum and I wasn't having just a couple.

Still smoking too much although I'm smoking less than I was. Can comfortably work 8 hours without wanting a cig.

Still eating shit mostly, better than lockdown though I guess

 

Tldr I'm just rambling 

[Section_31]

34 minutes ago, littletedwest said:

On week 3 at my new job. Enjoying it a bit more, guys there seem all OK ( apart from one sly twat). Just feels a step down and I'm worried money wise. Also feels weird, after 17 years I had loads of contacts and people would ask me for advice, now I'm asking for advice on basic shit.

Sticking at the weights and enjoying it as I'm getting stronger every week.

Cut down on the ale, working all week so by next Friday I'll have drank once in 28 days. During lockdown it was twice a week minimum and I wasn't having just a couple.

Still smoking too much although I'm smoking less than I was. Can comfortably work 8 hours without wanting a cig.

Still eating shit mostly, better than lockdown though I guess

 

Tldr I'm just rambling 

 

The stuff you describe regarding your job is really understandable. I know a few people who've developed depression or had full blown breakdowns when their 'place' in the world and the general hierarchy of things has changed.

 

We get a lot of our self worth from our jobs. I've been in that position myself and known others who have, often people who've taken a step down to catch their breath and regroup, but ended up feeling really low about their changing circumstances. 

 

I would say this is very normal thogh and you should try and see it for what it is, something you will approach on your own terms, do it to pay the bills but then start planning your next move.

[suzy]

I’ve found the last couple of pages really interesting. I’ve been plodding along during lockdown most of the time, worse things for me are worry about my 80+ parents and not seeing half as much as my grandson as I used to.

i have quite a few friends I see on a one to one basis for mostly daytime meet ups. 
I’ve noticed during this Covid shit if I have no plans I plod along ok. However if I arrange to meet a friend I’m getting stressed beforehand. Mostly the friends I have seen have been coming to my garden for a coffee so it’s all very relaxed. 
Yesterday hubby and I had lunch out in a very quiet restaurant with good social distancing that I was really looking forward to but I woke at 2am and couldn’t get back to sleep. I suffer from migraines and one trigger is not getting enough sleep but my mind wouldn’t stop! I kept finding things to google, the restaurant menu, the weather for Wednesday as I have a day off etc etc. 
I’m a very sociable person I love seeing people but why am I getting so stressed??  I knew I’d get a bad head, my eyes were getting sore but I just kept picking up my phone! 
When lockdown was at its height I slept really well. All very odd.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, suzy said:

I’ve found the last couple of pages really interesting. I’ve been plodding along during lockdown most of the time, worse things for me are worry about my 80+ parents and not seeing half as much as my grandson as I used to.

i have quite a few friends I see on a one to one basis for mostly daytime meet ups. 
I’ve noticed during this Covid shit if I have no plans I plod along ok. However if I arrange to meet a friend I’m getting stressed beforehand. Mostly the friends I have seen have been coming to my garden for a coffee so it’s all very relaxed. 
Yesterday hubby and I had lunch out in a very quiet restaurant with good social distancing that I was really looking forward to but I woke at 2am and couldn’t get back to sleep. I suffer from migraines and one trigger is not getting enough sleep but my mind wouldn’t stop! I kept finding things to google, the restaurant menu, the weather for Wednesday as I have a day off etc etc. 
I’m a very sociable person I love seeing people but why am I getting so stressed??  I knew I’d get a bad head, my eyes were getting sore but I just kept picking up my phone! 
When lockdown was at its height I slept really well. All very odd.

That sounds more like eustress than distress to me.

 

Eustress is when the stress you feel is exciting - kind of I can handle this but it's a bit scary. Some people get this kind of stress out of rollercoasters and horror movies, where the attraction is close to the edge but you know that you're going to be OK at the end of it.

 

Distress is more obvious and commonly recognised, it can overwhelm and can make you feel like you can't cope. This is where you feel that you can't handle it and at the end of it you don't feel like you're going to be ok.

 

Both forms are stressful, it's just people don't recognise eustress as easily.

[suzy]

2 hours ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

That sounds more like eustress than distress to me.

 

Eustress is when the stress you feel is exciting - kind of I can handle this but it's a bit scary. Some people get this kind of stress out of rollercoasters and horror movies, where the attraction is close to the edge but you know that you're going to be OK at the end of it.

 

Distress is more obvious and commonly recognised, it can overwhelm and can make you feel like you can't cope. This is where you feel that you can't handle it and at the end of it you don't feel like you're going to be ok.

 

Both forms are stressful, it's just people don't recognise eustress as easily.

I hate roller coasters and horror movies! I see what you mean but the anxiety in the middle of the night when I can’t sleep is real. I get more and more anxious about not sleeping thinking it will make me ill! 

The excitement from, say going on holiday, is a different kind of feeling.

[M_B]

Early morning anxiety is quite common. It's when we feel most alone, and all our fears and anxieties come out to play. Alcohol exaggerates it.

 

Meditation and mindfulness help - it teaches you how to control your mind so that when you wake up at 4 am, you can have some control over what you choose to think about to get yourself back to sleep. Before I learned how to meditate, my mind just wondered from anxiety to anxiety.

 

The wanting to keep looking at your phone sounds like dopamine triggers - checking emails, looking for likes on instagram, checking facebook updates and constantly coming back to threads on this forum - even the act of picking up the phone in the first place. The brain is trying to get its next pleasure fix.

[Section_31]

Do you know what I'd love to do, just as an experiment? Go and work on a farm or a fishing boat or some shit for a month and see if it made any difference. No smart phone, no interwebs, no news, just physical work and the chance to switch off. I do think the way we live now is a huge part of the problem for many of us. 

[Champ]

7 hours ago, suzy said:

I’ve found the last couple of pages really interesting. I’ve been plodding along during lockdown most of the time, worse things for me are worry about my 80+ parents and not seeing half as much as my grandson as I used to.

i have quite a few friends I see on a one to one basis for mostly daytime meet ups. 
I’ve noticed during this Covid shit if I have no plans I plod along ok. However if I arrange to meet a friend I’m getting stressed beforehand. Mostly the friends I have seen have been coming to my garden for a coffee so it’s all very relaxed. 
Yesterday hubby and I had lunch out in a very quiet restaurant with good social distancing that I was really looking forward to but I woke at 2am and couldn’t get back to sleep. I suffer from migraines and one trigger is not getting enough sleep but my mind wouldn’t stop! I kept finding things to google, the restaurant menu, the weather for Wednesday as I have a day off etc etc. 
I’m a very sociable person I love seeing people but why am I getting so stressed??  I knew I’d get a bad head, my eyes were getting sore but I just kept picking up my phone! 
When lockdown was at its height I slept really well. All very odd.

 

6 hours ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

That sounds more like eustress than distress to me.

 

Eustress is when the stress you feel is exciting - kind of I can handle this but it's a bit scary. Some people get this kind of stress out of rollercoasters and horror movies, where the attraction is close to the edge but you know that you're going to be OK at the end of it.

 

Distress is more obvious and commonly recognised, it can overwhelm and can make you feel like you can't cope. This is where you feel that you can't handle it and at the end of it you don't feel like you're going to be ok.

 

Both forms are stressful, it's just people don't recognise eustress as easily.

It sounds very like anxiety to me. The things that you are describing that are causing you stress sound like things over which you currently have no real control at the moment or into the foreseeable future. I don’t know if these are feelings you have experienced before. Have you got things that you do that help alleviate the stress? Exercise really helps as can mindfulness. There are some really helpful online sources of help too. And as a last resort, I take a low dose of an antidepressant that works really well for me. That may seem like a step too far at the moment but a discussion with your GP, if you can get one, may be worth considering