Depression

[zigackly]

Hmmm?........Nah, but thanks anyway.

 

 

No?

[FanchesterCity]

It's very easy (for some) to see depression lightheartedly, and it's not helped by degrees of it. Some claim depression when they are just 'under the weather', whilst others will be having pretty dark thoughts and mask it with smiles.

 

There are some proven physiological reasons for depressions too, and thankfully many of those can be treated with medication. Sadly, not all are (yet) known to be physiological, and there's no simple pill.

 

I lost my job a few years ago, had lots of money, worked in London, nice car etc etc. Suddenly, it all disappeared. I wasn't crap at my job - they simply shut down most of their European operations, and laid off about 4000 people all in all.

 

For a while, there was enough money to hold out, and to attend interviews (again, all down south), but after about 6 months of depressing signing on, and running out of money, it got to the point where we couldn't even afford to get to interviews any more. 60 quid to get to London and back might not sound much, but when you're running out of money, it starts becoming a real problem...

 

But all that is by the by...

 

Close family didn't REALLY grasp what it does to you, and extended family were clueless. You'd even get the odd jibe about 'might have to start working at Tesco' etc. Have you tried getting a job there when you've been working in the City? They don't want to know you!

 

Suddenly, you're over 40, you've been on too much money, and nobody wants to take you on, for even 1/4 of the salary you had.

At the same time, it SEEMS like plenty of others are doing well, or they've been laid off and found work easily. It starts eating away at you. Thing in the home need fixing - TV on the blink, kids phones need updating etc etc, in the past you'd just get them fixed, but now money is tight, you can't afford to get them fixed.

 

Then comes Christmas. The kids have had it good in the past, and even something like a bike, or a playstation is going to set you back 150.00... birthdays too. No holiday this year, no stopping at Pizza Hut with the kids etc.

 

Eventually it gets to you, and you start rowing with the wife. You're off hand with the kids, and nobody 'gets' the situation you're in. Lots of nice platitudes, and even stories about other people being depressed - followed by "so we ended up with 3 weeks in Florida and felt great after that"... not fucking helpful at all. In fact, you'd rather they just all fucked off completely.

 

Then you start thinking "what if I wasn't here?"... would it be a lot easier for everyone if I just drove off a cliff and have done with it?... would divorce help? ... why can't we have NORMAL kids with no hassle?

 

When you're getting to (or at) that stage... the smallest things are huge. A leaking tap you're struggling to fix becomes another example of uselessness. Your mate's promotion is a kick in the teeth.

 

It's a grim place to be, and you're expected to either grin and bear it, or you're a mard arse for not manning up. People say "you should talk about it" but not to them, they don't actually want to listen to your moaning.

 

Until you've been there, you'll never really grasp how it creeps up on you and eats away at you. You can be right as rain for a few days, then within hours you're thinking up potential ways to end it all.

 

I work for myself now, things perked up, but still the scars are still there and there are still small things that get to me in a big way. I never went to a doctor, I never took medication.

 

The truth is, I think a LOT of people who are really suffering remain silent. Whilst some seem rather pleased with themselves when telling everybody they are suffering. It's very hard to know what's actually going on inside of them.

 

All I can say is... be careful. Depression DOES exist, and hurts. It's damaging, corrosive even, and it's subtle. Just don't underestimate it, or believe you're immune. It's like cancer - and will touch someone you know.

 

On a final note... going to the match was one of the few times when every burden was 'lifted' for a few hours. Quite amazing that sport can do that.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Hmmm?........Nah, but thanks anyway.

 

Love Cath x

 

Forgot you were a female. Now that I've realised, I reinforce my original statement unboundedly.

 

Seriously though (and maybe this is quite a naive piece of input, so sorry it if it is), try and reignite your ambition. Purpose and context really are the two most important things in life. Adjusting the latter is hard but renewing the former isn't.

[Champ]

 

No?

 

Haha, even less likely!

[Uncle_Meat]

On a final note... going to the match was one of the few times when every burden was 'lifted' for a few hours. Quite amazing that sport can do that.

 

I'm guessing this wasn't in the Franny Lee era of chairmanship?

 

 

Shit. F***ball on the GF.

 

INCOMING!

[zigackly]

Forgot you were a female. Now that I've realised, I reinforce my original statement unboundedly.

 

Seriously though (and maybe this is quite a naive piece of input, so sorry it if it is), try and reignite your ambition. Purpose and context really are the two most important things in life. Adjusting the latter is hard but renewing the former isn't.

 

Forgive me for saying this, but it is terribly naive. None of the easy advice and platitudes make any difference whatsoever when a specific symptom of the illness you are facing is a complete inability to motivate yourself. In fact, in that position someone telling you how to help yourself will often have the opposite effect of making you feel much worse. If you can't even face getting up, showering or eating breakfast, how are you supposed to renew your sense of purpose? You can recognise that these things people are telling you are good advice, but you just can't do any of it, and that must be completely your own fault because you're basically a shitbag.

[Champ]

I'm guessing this wasn't in the Franny Lee era of chairmanship?

 

 

Shit. F***ball on the GF.

 

INCOMING!

 

Are you being a bit hasty there, Uncle? Who mentioned any specific sport?

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Forgive me for saying this, but it is terribly naive. None of the easy advice and platitudes makes any difference whatsoever when a specific symptom of the illness you are facing is a complete inability to motivate yourself.

 

I know, hence the pre-apology.

 

Its just what worked for me and all I can really offer.

[zigackly]

I know, hence the pre-apology.

 

Its just what worked for me and all I can really offer.

 

Not having a go at you by saying what I did, just trying to explain why it's so difficult to just snap out of it, but from what you say there I guess you know already. It's also what worked for me, but I see it as either a happy accident or a matter of time making me ready rather than a purposeful direction I took.

[Champ]

Not having a go at you by saying what I did, just trying to explain why it's so difficult to just snap out of it, but from what you say there I guess you know already. It's also what worked for me, but I see it as either a happy accident or a matter of time making me ready rather than a purposeful direction I took.

And I guess it is how you define 'ambition'...for me, at least, it doesnt have to mean anything very grand. It could simply be about trying to challenge yourself to do a small thing like agreeing to meet up with a friend, reaching your goal(s) by small steps

[melons]

but you just can't do any of it, and that must be completely your own fault because you're basically a shitbag.

 

This bit brought back a memory, i remembered the feeling of utter disbelief that my i couldn't even get my planned suicide right, the plan to throw myself down the stairs depended on my ex turning up home at the same time as me 'falling' i would ring his mobile and wait for him to say he's at the bottom of the steps of the house and i would do it, meant the kids wouldn't be on their own to deal with it. The inconsiderate sod never came home on time. Each black day i would phone from the top of the stairs, each time he was always a good half hour away. It didn't cross my mind to go back up the stairs half an hour later. That's how bloody scatty i was at the time. I can sort of laugh at it now, more out of stupidity for not being able to do it then what a mess i must have been, mind.

[zigackly]

If you have an operation, break a bone, sprain a muscle, even catch a virus, it takes time to heal, no matter how much medicine or physio you do.

 

Depression is no different in that respect.

[zigackly]

And I guess it is how you define 'ambition'...for me, at least, it doesnt have to mean anything very grand. It could simply be about trying to challenge yourself to do a small thing like agreeing to meet up with a friend, reaching your goal(s) by small steps

 

This is also true. Seems sad to be congratulating yourself for things other people take for granted, but you have to.

[Champ]

This bit brought back a memory, i remembered the feeling of utter disbelief that my i couldn't even get my planned suicide right, the plan to throw myself down the stairs depended on my ex turning up home at the same time as me 'falling' i would ring his mobile and wait for him to say he's at the bottom of the steps of the house and i would do it, meant the kids wouldn't be on their own to deal with it. The inconsiderate sod never came home on time. Each black day i would phone from the top of the stairs, each time he was always a good half hour away. It didn't cross my mind to go back up the stairs half an hour later. That's how bloody scatty i was at the time. I can sort of laugh at it now, more out of stupidity for not being able to do it then what a mess i must have been, mind.

 

...that brings back to my mind a man I was speaking to at work following a suicide attempt. He was speaking about how his parents had only ever wanted him to be happy...and addedd, 'and I couldnt even get that right.' I have never forgotten the utter despair and self loathing in his voice as he said that.

[Uncle_Meat]

Back when I lived in Liverpool I was diagnosed as being bi-polar. It was a mates of mine who prompted me to get checked out as they had noticed the swings far more than I had, to be fair it wasn't a massive mania cycle, but quite a deep depressive cycle.

 

They had me in at that place in Newsham Park and wanted to put me on various drugs I can't remember the name of now, but the main one being a monitored dose of Lithium. Apparently, from what I remember, you have to be quite careful with dosage with that stuff.

 

I didn't quite trust them to do the right thing or dose the right dose, and besides I enjoyed my more creative cycle and saw the depressive bit as being fair payment and this being better than the virtual headmong that Lithium might do to me.

 

Certainly enviroment didn't help at the time, a tatty flat in a bit of a dodgy road, work was sporadic (Not that I minded that much at the time, it gave me an excuse to stay in and nerd hard on the computer) but still. Not conducive to a healthy frame of mind I suppose.

 

Anyway, chance came for me to move to Wales by a friend of mine, and I stayed in a caravan on her farm for a few months whilst I got my shit together and that, more than anything, is what drew me out.

 

Peaceful place, good people and lots of happy animals I could bond with which helped the most I think. I was having quite an antisocial episode (Used to get quite long ones back in Liverpool.. Months at a time sometimes...) at the time, but happy huggy scritchy animals? Fuck yeah, I can deal with them all day long. This levelled things out a bit, got me out and about around the farm and then around the locale, found some voluntary, then part-time, then self employed work and the rest is history.

 

It's still there, I know it is. I have my up periods and my down periods, but not as deep as they were back then, and I'm better at realising it and knowing how it'll soon pass, don't do anything daft, just relax and I've got good people around here who are understanding of my little foibles, in a "Heh, that's our Meaty. He's just doing his antisocial bastard thing, bless his little scouse socks. He'll be back soon enough..."

 

And that's about it.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Not having a go at you by saying what I did, just trying to explain why it's so difficult to just snap out of it, but from what you say there I guess you know already. It's also what worked for me, but I see it as either a happy accident or a matter of time making me ready rather than a purposeful direction I took.

 

No of course, dont worry about it. I agree, it really is, and although what I said sounded idyllic and unrealistic, i really think that achieving something - however small - is better than taking any pill or talking to any doctor. I had a shit couple of years and had every right to let that consume me. It did, for a while. Only turned once I'd given myself some goals, which I ended up achieving.

 

I alluded before that negatives can often be exponential. The same is true for positives. The hardest part is finding the first few.

 

And I guess it is how you define 'ambition'...for me, at least, it doesnt have to mean anything very grand. It could simply be about trying to challenge yourself to do a small thing like agreeing to meet up with a friend, reaching your goal(s) by small steps

 

Thats exactly what I meant. Incrementally you'll fight whatever is taking its toll on you. It sounds self-helpy but I actually started writing down aims every month or so.

 

Another thing I found is that, despite the mantra that "talking about it helps" (and it does) - there has to come a point where you are sick of talking about it. or even thinking about it. Developing a disdain for everything shit in your life will serve as a platform for moving forward. Reflecting on those things rather achieves the opposite. In my opinion, of course.

[FanchesterCity]

I'm guessing this wasn't in the Franny Lee era of chairmanship?

 

 

Shit. F***ball on the GF.

 

INCOMING!

 

for a very short while, we thought he was the Messiah! About 3 weeks it lasted (which was longer than some of our managers!). The club for cock-ups - well and truly!

[Champ]

 

anyway all I know is fluoxetine made me not have a care in the world.. esp mixed with codeine

 

....an example of depression and its treatment being such an individual thing. That was what I was prescribed and did nothing for me, except perhaps accentuate the feelings of complete apathy that I was already experiencing

[FanchesterCity]

Forgive me for saying this, but it is terribly naive. None of the easy advice and platitudes make any difference whatsoever when a specific symptom of the illness you are facing is a complete inability to motivate yourself. In fact, in that position someone telling you how to help yourself will often have the opposite effect of making you feel much worse. If you can't even face getting up, showering or eating breakfast, how are you supposed to renew your sense of purpose? You can recognise that these things people are telling you are good advice, but you just can't do any of it, and that must be completely your own fault because you're basically a shitbag.

 

That's bang on. The platitudes are the last insult.

You're intelligent, you KNOW you're depressed. If it was easy to snap out of, you would. When people offer the platitudes, it's just more depressing because it's clear they don't grasp the problem.

 

In many ways (speaking personally of course), it felt better for someone to agree that life's shit rather than that say "stay positive'. Wallowing in pity (bad choice of phrase really) with a mate was far more therapeutic.

[A Red]

It’s a tough uncaring and plastic world now, where the bottom line is king and youre judged by your outward success. Its no wonder depression creeps up on people.

 

There are a few factors that I believe have contributed enormously towards depression –

 

Work – So many people are dispensable and live under fear of some faceless person somewhere else in the world deciding by a stroke of a keyboard to shut their job down. Fanchester spoke well of the effects of losing your job. Employers now expect more and more, everything has to be now and if the company is 1% below growth forecast they panic and start cutting.

 

Technology – Most of technology is brilliant, some has proved to be catastrophic – smart phones being the worst. People brag of having the latest phone and being in contact day and night with their emails and work without realising what it means. People cant switch off from work or hide, youre expected to be on duty all the time.

 

Family – The way house prices are now it often requires both parents to work to maintain a lifestyle, kids suffer and the quality time is much less than it should be.

 

Women in the workplace – It has to be said but many women are not cut out to juggle careers, housekeeping, families and relationships. A womans traditional role has been taken away, theyre expected to compete with men in the workplace and still be the homemaker.

 

Expectations – Look at facebook, people with 100’s of friends but no-one to go down the pub with or have a good old natter face to face. They read how fantastic other peoples lives are compared to their own boring yet stressful yet empty lives.

 

Falseness – You see people greeting other people that they cant stand as if they were a long lost relative. You hear people proclaiming heartfelt way over the top sadness over some tragic event or whatever when they couldn’t give a flying one.

 

Greed is good. Image is god. Money is all.

 

Welcome to the United States of America.

[RedinSweden]

It’s a tough uncaring and plastic world now, where the bottom line is king and youre judged by your outward success. Its no wonder depression creeps up on people.

 

There are a few factors that I believe have contributed enormously towards depression –

 

Work – So many people are dispensable and live under fear of some faceless person somewhere else in the world deciding by a stroke of a keyboard to shut their job down. Fanchester spoke well of the effects of losing your job. Employers now expect more and more, everything has to be now and if the company is 1% below growth forecast they panic and start cutting.

 

Technology – Most of technology is brilliant, some has proved to be catastrophic – smart phones being the worst. People brag of having the latest phone and being in contact day and night with their emails and work without realising what it means. People cant switch off from work or hide, youre expected to be on duty all the time.

 

Family – The way house prices are now it often requires both parents to work to maintain a lifestyle, kids suffer and the quality time is much less than it should be.

 

Women in the workplace – It has to be said but many women are not cut out to juggle careers, housekeeping, families and relationships. A womans traditional role has been taken away, theyre expected to compete with men in the workplace and still be the homemaker.

 

Expectations – Look at facebook, people with 100’s of friends but no-one to go down the pub with or have a good old natter face to face. They read how fantastic other peoples lives are compared to their own boring yet stressful yet empty lives.

 

Falseness – You see people greeting other people that they cant stand as if they were a long lost relative. You hear people proclaiming heartfelt way over the top sadness over some tragic event or whatever when they couldn’t give a flying one.

 

Greed is good. Image is god. Money is all.

 

Welcome to the United States of America.

 

You did well up until the women in the workplace bit, then it went a bit pear shaped. 6/10

[A Red]

You did well up until the women in the workplace bit, then it went a bit pear shaped. 6/10

 

I'm happy with 6/10, thanks. What was wrong with the women in the workplace bit?

[RedinSweden]

I'm happy with 6/10, thanks. What was wrong with the women in the workplace bit?

 

I agree with the last line, but the start is wrong. The problem comes from needing both people in work, but the work is not set up for people to be able to do both. it should be both parents doing the juggling.

[Nunavut Patrick]

Back when I lived in Liverpool I was diagnosed as being bi-polar. It was a mates of mine who prompted me to get checked out as they had noticed the swings far more than I had, to be fair it wasn't a massive mania cycle, but quite a deep depressive cycle.

 

They had me in at that place in Newsham Park and wanted to put me on various drugs I can't remember the name of now, but the main one being a monitored dose of Lithium. Apparently, from what I remember, you have to be quite careful with dosage with that stuff.

 

I didn't quite trust them to do the right thing or dose the right dose, and besides I enjoyed my more creative cycle and saw the depressive bit as being fair payment and this being better than the virtual headmong that Lithium might do to me.

 

Certainly enviroment didn't help at the time, a tatty flat in a bit of a dodgy road, work was sporadic (Not that I minded that much at the time, it gave me an excuse to stay in and nerd hard on the computer) but still. Not conducive to a healthy frame of mind I suppose.

 

Anyway, chance came for me to move to Wales by a friend of mine, and I stayed in a caravan on her farm for a few months whilst I got my shit together and that, more than anything, is what drew me out.

 

Peaceful place, good people and lots of happy animals I could bond with which helped the most I think. I was having quite an antisocial episode (Used to get quite long ones back in Liverpool.. Months at a time sometimes...) at the time, but happy huggy scritchy animals? Fuck yeah, I can deal with them all day long. This levelled things out a bit, got me out and about around the farm and then around the locale, found some voluntary, then part-time, then self employed work and the rest is history.

 

It's still there, I know it is. I have my up periods and my down periods, but not as deep as they were back then, and I'm better at realising it and knowing how it'll soon pass, don't do anything daft, just relax and I've got good people around here who are understanding of my little foibles, in a "Heh, that's our Meaty. He's just doing his antisocial bastard thing, bless his little scouse socks. He'll be back soon enough..."

 

And that's about it.

 

Never heard of sheep shagging as working for depression but each their own I guess.

[A Red]

I agree with the last line, but the start is wrong. The problem comes from needing both people in work, but the work is not set up for people to be able to do both. it should be both parents doing the juggling.

 

Fair comment, the first line is perhaps a bit sexist. I should have said, many people instead of women.