James McClean refuses to wear poppy

[Section_31]

The irony of all this is, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the world more disrespectful of other people's anthems than England fans. Lost count of the amount of times an anthem has been drowned out by boos at Wembley.

 

The idea that him playing here means he's got to be deferrential is daft too. That's like saying you can't take up a million pound banking job in Moscow without showing proper love to Putin.

 

Jobs are international now, you work for that company or that club, not the country it just happens to be based in.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

And now rise for your countries national anthem ♫

 

 

 

I'm a separatist; I only stand for it when it's played with PAL slow down.

[VladimirIlyich]

But it's your national anthem. You are refusing to be represented by this anthem and have a right to express this opinion. It's different.

No it isnt my National Anthem,I do not have a song that represents me. If I did it would not praise a wealthy person who lives off the state and was simply born into privilege because other wealthy people said so.

A song or piece of material wrapped around a stick does not define me,or many others I suspect.

 

[A Red]

Dont get this 'taking our money' angle at all.

He was born in,and has lived in the UK all his life so whose money is he taking if not the money of his own citizens? Pounds are used N.Ireland as well,I assume?

He is not disrespecting anybody other than a bunch of half German Nazi sympathisers who actually get paid to live an opulent life simply by being born into a particular family.

I have done,and will continue to do,the same sort of thing.

Fuckin ridiculous playing national anthems before a non event friendly and I wish they'd also shove all those pieces of cloth from all around the world up their arses too.

Flags and national anthems are just as plastic.

I have no clue where this comes from, i guess you think i said it or implied it.

 

He chooses to pay the crown his taxes, him being so anti the crown, when he could go elsewhere and still earn big money. Not big enough money obviously.

 

Plenty of Irish republicans have had to take the shilling and pay the tax or would have starved. He doesnt. 

 

I dont doubt he believes what he did was right and i have no problem with him doing it, I just think it was done for his conscience

[Bjornebye]

You lost me there a bit, how do you "not believe" in someone elses anthem? You may have a right to refuse anything which you are asked to accept, you cannot turn down an invitation you haven't recieved. You cannot go to France and start arguing they should drop their anthem because it's is a bit gory. I mean you can, but....

He didn't ask anyone to drop anything.

[SasaS]

No it isnt my National Anthem,I do not have a song that represents me. If I did it would not praise a wealthy person who lives off the state and was simply born into privilege because other wealthy people said so.

A song or piece of material wrapped around a stick does not define me,or many others I suspect.

And you have every right to think so, because you choose not to be represented by a national anthem, or by the song your nation has adopted as an anthem.

 

But do you have a right to choose for other people not to be represented by a national anthem or by what anthem should they be represented, if you are not entirely anty-anthemist?

[SasaS]

He didn't ask anyone to drop anything.

 

Ok, let me put it like this. Nationalists and unionists are wrangling in Belfast over the number of days Union Jack will be flying from government buildings. This is perfectly understandable to me, because the colours mark the territory, a tricolor or a union flag remind the other side where they live, in terms of staking a claim to an identity. It is therefore perflectly acceptable to me that an Irish nacionalist would refuse to lets say enter a government building because a union flag is flying on a wrong day (or because it's there in the first place). However, if the same Irish nationalist works in, lets say, Birmingham, and his company is a bit flag happy and flies a union flag over the HQ where he works, he would look a bit daft if he then asked the  people to take it down, no?

[Bjornebye]

Ok, let me put it like this. Nationalists and unionists are wrangling in Belfast over the number of days Union Jack will be flying from government buildings. This is perfectly understandable to me, because the colours mark the territory, a tricolor or a union flag remind the other side where they live, in terms of staking a claim to an identity. It is therefore perflectly acceptable to me that an Irish nacionalist would refuse to lets say enter a government building because a union flag is flying on a wrong day (or because it's there in the first place). However, if the same Irish nationalist works in, lets say, Birmingham, and his company is a bit flag happy and flies a union flag over the HQ where he works, he would look a bit daft if he then asked the  people to take it down, no?

 

Ok, Let me put it like this. He didn't ask them to stop singing it. He just chose not to. 

[SasaS]

I based my argument on the report saying  he turned away, thus making a political  statement. My view is that it was the wrong time and place for this and that it made him seem childish, or as someone said a couple of pages back, a bit of an "armchair Republican". Just standing there and not participating would probably been the best approach. Since you picked me up on part of my argument, I tried to use analogies to help me get my point across in which, I'm beginning to realize, I have failed quite miserably.

[Tony Moanero]

People are still going on about this cunt?

[Bjornebye]

I based my argument on the report saying  he turned away, thus making a political  statement. My view is that it was the wrong time and place for this and that it made him seem childish, or as someone said a couple of pages back, a bit of an "armchair Republican". Just standing there and not participating would probably been the best approach. Since you picked me up on part of my argument, I tried to use analogies to help me get my point across in which, I'm beginning to realize, I have failed quite miserably.

 

[SasaS]

Yes, like this, thank you.

What Danny Morrison would have given for a beautiful image like this in say 1987.

[Bjornebye]

Yes, like this, thank you.

 

What Danny Morrison would have given for a beautiful image like this in say 1987.

 

I'm sure Douglas Hurd would have insisted on a speech bubble coming from his mouth saying "Fuck the queen i'm here to eat your children so I am" 

[SasaS]

Or just accidentally leave his home adress with Michael Stone.

[Josef Svejk]

He's shit. I couldn't care less about the rest...

[Strontium]

I can't help thinking that the football pitch should be the last place for childish political gestures like this. If the USA and Iran can play each other at the World Cup in a spirit of friendship, then McClean can easily not turn his back on the Union Jack.

[A Red]

 

I bet the bastard has got his fingers crossed too. Oooh but hes such a "rebel"

[Josef Svejk]

I can't help thinking that the football pitch should be the last place for childish political gestures like this. If the USA and Iran can play each other at the World Cup in a spirit of friendship, then McClean can easily not turn his back on the Union Jack.

 

Spirit of friendship? That's not how I remember that game. Which was brilliant. I think the US were experimenting with a six-man midfield at the time. And trying to play the offside trap in their opponents' half.

[Section_31]

I can't help thinking that the football pitch should be the last place for childish political gestures like this. If the USA and Iran can play each other at the World Cup in a spirit of friendship, then McClean can easily not turn his back on the Union Jack.

To be fair this is a forum where people (rightly) refuse to post links to the s*n or even spell the word s*n. There's plenty of footy fans out there who'd think that was daft, but if you feel strongly about something you fuck it off, whether outsiders understand it and consider it bona fide or not.

[Anubis]

To be fair this is a forum where people (rightly) refuse to post links to the s*n or even spell the word s*n. There's plenty of footy fans out there who'd think that was daft, but if you feel strongly about something you fuck it off, whether outsiders understand it and consider it bona fide or not.

This is a forum for a set of fans which has actively sung their own anthem over the national anthem at Wembley with royals present.

[Bjornebye]

I can't help thinking that the football pitch should be the last place for childish political gestures like this. If the USA and Iran can play each other at the World Cup in a spirit of friendship, then McClean can easily not turn his back on the Union Jack.

Are you fucking retarded? Where dies he turn his back?

[Bjornebye]

Cunting autocorrect *does

[xerxes]

if you feel strongly about something you fuck it off, whether outsiders understand it and consider it bona fide or not.

Fair comment.

 

But if you make a prat of yourself, you have to take that too.

 

McLean wasn't representing himself, he was representing a club he chose, going on a tour he chose, representing a league he chose, in a country, he chose.

 

A national anthem includes all in the nation, those whom we agree with, and those whom we disagree with. Because he was representing a club, league and country he chose, he ends up looking foolish. He chose to represent Northern Ireland U21's too, when living in Londonderry, so we can discount any deep rooted conviction.

 

If he wants to go to America to give them the benefit of his views in a personal capacity, fine.

 

He has also chosen to play for a club on the fringes of a city which suffered 21 dead and 182 injured in the pub bombings. It's a good job that the Baggies support is a little more tolerant and mature than he is.

[Section_31]

Fair comment.

 

But if you make a prat of yourself, you have to take that too.

 

McLean wasn't representing himself, he was representing a club he chose, going on a tour he chose, representing a league he chose, in a country, he chose.

 

A national anthem includes all in the nation, those whom we agree with, and those whom we disagree with. Because he was representing a club, league and country he chose, he ends up looking foolish. He chose to represent Northern Ireland U21's too, when living in Londonderry, so we can discount any deep rooted conviction.

 

If he wants to go to America to give them the benefit of his views in a personal capacity, fine.

 

He has also chosen to play for a club on the fringes of a city which suffered 21 dead and 182 injured in the pub bombings. It's a good job that the Baggies support is a little more tolerant and mature than he is.

 

He wasn't showing flagrant disrespect though, wiping his arse on a picture of the Queen or something, but why should he stand to attention for it any more than you or me would stand to attention for the Russian or Chinese national anthem? 

 

As far as he's concerned the establishment wronged his country and he's not going to stand there and salute them without looking like a two faced twat. 

 

He never chose to play for England, he chose to play in England, there's a massive difference, if there's not then we're heading down the road of nationalism. 

 

There's plenty of English companies out there that think nothing of throwing english workers on the bonfire if it will save them a few quid, employment is global - countries don't figure in it at all now.

[xerxes]

He wasn't showing flagrant disrespect etc

The convention IS that you respect the national anthems of other countries, although I would agree that England fans in particular, rarely bother.

 

I don't doubt that he thought he was doing the right thing, but for the reasons I put in my previous post, to many he looks like a two faced twat by his behaviour. The last in a series of choices he made.

 

Maybe the answer is that he is just a twat.