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The whole things been perverted to an extent though. The Poppy Appeal was seperate from Rememberence Sunday. The latter was about remembering war and making sure it shouldn't happen again. The Poppy Appeal was to rasie money for welfare programmes..........etc

 

Thought that was a really good post.

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I reckon if I felt as strongly as you suggest he might I wouldn't live in England nor take the Queen's coin.

 

 

 

All he's done is not wear a poppy, he's hardly taking up arms, is he. And, without claiming to know his motivations, I'd guess his decision is based on his disagreement with British government policies in the past. Have you never expressed disagreement with any decision the government's taken? Ever?

 

And where the fuck does the 'Queen's coin' come into it? He's working for an employer based in Britain who's income comes from their fans, advertisers and TV rights. Liz dosen't have a say in the matter.

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Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

I'm from McClean's home town. The reason why he chose not to wear a poppy is because where he's from, it has sort of taken on a different meaning. It's nearly a symbol to show how much of a 'super' prodestant you are. He's from Creggan (in Derry) which is about as Republican / Catholic an area as you can get. The Irish lads on here will know what i mean.

 

Personally I would've worn it to avoid the controversy but its his choice. It's all politcal bullshit over here and should have no part in football (unless you are a moron).

 

Rant over

 

An individual's background and personal experiences colour how we perceive the symbol of the Poppy or any symbol or even a flag and what it represents.

Ask a group of people in the street why we buy poppies and you'll get a host of varying replies.The Union Jack in the 70's and 80's was hijacked by right wing movements like the NF. As the poster says in parts of Derry some have adopted it as an expression of Unionism. Here you could say it's also been politicised in some quarters into an expression of Nationalism and jingoism and I can appreciate people being uncomfortable with it's departure from it's original meaning.

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Guest ShoePiss
All he's done is not wear a poppy, he's hardly taking up arms, is he. And, without claiming to know his motivations, I'd guess his decision is based on his disagreement with British government policies in the past. Have you never expressed disagreement with any decision the government's taken? Ever?

 

And where the fuck does the 'Queen's coin' come into it? He's working for an employer based in Britain who's income comes from their fans, advertisers and TV rights. Liz dosen't have a say in the matter.

 

You will have seen the post I was responding to, it wasn't simply his decision not to wear a poppy. There was some explanation to his background and upbringing and I was responding to that. Hope that makes sense.

 

From that, I put myself in his position and aired my thoughts.

 

Edit to add : like I said further up the thread it's a personal choice. Here in the states the national anthem is sung before every sporting event and there's always a military presence. Although I don't agree with actions of America's military abroad in a lot of cases I'll still take my hat off, stand up and look towards the flag. I feel it's a sign of respect for the country I'm in. Again, that's my personal choice. Hope that explains a little more where I'm coming from.

Edited by ShoePiss

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As someone else said he comes from an area where british soldiers murdered some of his own. As much as people maybe outraged by it in mainland uk, they have to understand that he may have had relations that where killed. Very easy to call him a scumbag when you do not really know his background.

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I don't really bother with it any more because it's become more of a political statement than an act of remembrance, and I can't be doing with that.

 

When it's more about whether people wear them or not than what it means, then it's become massively fucked up.

 

It shouldn't be about point scoring, either way.

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He should go & play in the League of Ireland as he's so principled.................

And before the first Fenian has a pop I have a wife from Crumlin, Dublin

You can be proud to be from a Liverpol background but still see respect for the armed forces and the job they do.

My wife's grandfather was in the Royal Navy.and when the Black & Tans came house searching the picture of him in Uniform always meant they went straight out (and no I'm not saying I agree with extremes of the past on any side)

But this lad McClean I do feel a real disdain for

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He should go & play in the League of Ireland as he's so principled.................

And before the first Fenian has a pop I have a wife from Crumlin, Dublin

You can be proud to be from a Liverpol background but still see respect for the armed forces and the job they do.

My wife's grandfather was in the Royal Navy.and when the Black & Tans came house searching the picture of him in Uniform always meant they went straight out (and no I'm not saying I agree with extremes of the past on any side)

But this lad McClean I do feel a real disdain for

 

This thread was going so well and all ....

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He should go & play in the League of Ireland as he's so principled.................

And before the first Fenian has a pop I have a wife from Crumlin, Dublin

You can be proud to be from a Liverpol background but still see respect for the armed forces and the job they do.

My wife's grandfather was in the Royal Navy.and when the Black & Tans came house searching the picture of him in Uniform always meant they went straight out (and no I'm not saying I agree with extremes of the past on any side)

But this lad McClean I do feel a real disdain for

 

Why should he? He just chose not to wear one. Maybe he thought that if he did then would be thought bad of back home by family and the people he grew up with? It's not that big a deal. Fair play to him

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He should go & play in the League of Ireland as he's so principled.................

And before the first Fenian has a pop I have a wife from Crumlin, Dublin

You can be proud to be from a Liverpol background but still see respect for the armed forces and the job they do.

My wife's grandfather was in the Royal Navy.and when the Black & Tans came house searching the picture of him in Uniform always meant they went straight out (and no I'm not saying I agree with extremes of the past on any side)

But this lad McClean I do feel a real disdain for

 

Christ almighty. At least make an effort to understand the issue. I despair for this tabloid world.

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Christ almighty. At least make an effort to understand the issue. I despair for this tabloid world.

 

Don't be so fucking patronising

Explain the issue to me Johnny then, I'm obviously not understanding to your superior smug level....................

Arsewipe, Guardian reader?

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Don't be so fucking patronising

Explain the issue to me Johnny then, I'm obviously not understanding to your superior smug level....................

Arsewipe, Guardian reader?

 

He's from a small estate in Derry from where 6 completely innocent civil rights marchers were murdered by the British Army. People his family knew. The British PM has apologised (and is to be respected for it) but the Army continued to spin lies and put the blame on the marchers right up until the enquiry found all those people to be innocent. The British Army have of course done good, and have some great people within their ranks. None moreso then my wheelchair bound brother-in-law and his son. But the British Army has also done some despicable things. Bloody Sunday in Derry on the 30th January 1972 was one of them. He is a young lad from that estate and so the fact he's had the courage of his convictions to not wear a poppy despite the very obvious abuse he was going to get from people who, in my opinion, clearly haven't a bloody clue what the poppy stands for, is to be applauded.

 

And if you feel like I was patronising, then good. People need to be forced to think before spouting the unending amount of kneejerk tabloid bullshit that seems to fester there days. The 1st and 2nd lines of your original post were so spectacularly fucking dumb that you fully deserved to be patronised. In my opinion of course.

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[quote name=JohnnyH;

 

And if you feel like I was patronising' date=' then good. People need to be forced to think before spouting the unending amount of kneejerk tabloid bullshit that seems to fester there days. The 1st and 2nd lines of your original post were so spectacularly fucking dumb that you fully deserved to be patronised. In my opinion of course.[/quote]

 

Guardian Reader QED

Sanctimonious

Fucking know it all

You probably live in Islington

My first "2 lines were so spectaculraly fucking dumb"

Ignorant Prententious Knob

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Guardian Reader QED

Sanctimonious

Fucking know it all

You probably live in Islington

My first "2 lines were so spectaculraly fucking dumb"

Ignorant Prententious Knob

 

Well, you've pegged me there alright.

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Well, you've pegged me there alright.

 

And do you know what, I apologise.

I've been out for a walk with the dogs (liberated late today from kennels as have been away for the weekend in the Lakes)

So I've put away my anger,I'm not even going to try and explain the reasons why I have strong views on this subject other than to say my family, like most,had people who fought fascists, who need remembering for what they did.

But ranting on a forum, with a "My view is more right than yours" is wrong,and a cooler head recognises that.

Live & let live, you're as entitled to your view as mine.

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And do you know what, I apologise.

I've been out for a walk with the dogs (liberated late today from kennels as have been away for the weekend in the Lakes)

So I've put away my anger,I'm not even going to try and explain the reasons why I have strong views on this subject other than to say my family, like most,had people who fought fascists, who need remembering for what they did.

But ranting on a forum, with a "My view is more right than yours" is wrong,and a cooler head recognises that.

Live & let live, you're as entitled to your view as mine.

 

Fair do's. Done and dusted.

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He should go & play in the League of Ireland as he's so principled.................

And before the first Fenian has a pop I have a wife from Crumlin, Dublin

You can be proud to be from a Liverpol background but still see respect for the armed forces and the job they do.

My wife's grandfather was in the Royal Navy.and when the Black & Tans came house searching the picture of him in Uniform always meant they went straight out (and no I'm not saying I agree with extremes of the past on any side)

But this lad McClean I do feel a real disdain for

 

It's been adopted as a badge of loyalism in Northern Ireland and in my eyes isn't worn by everybody for the reasons it's meant to be worn more of a "look at me I'm a massive protestant".

 

I saw a bandsman wearing a poppy the size of his face in August. what's that got to do with remembrance sunday in November?

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Going off topic here but anyone think the poppy on our shirts yesterday where suspiciously placed near the warrior logo for maximum exposure?

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It's been adopted as a badge of loyalism in Northern Ireland and in my eyes isn't worn by everybody for the reasons it's meant to be worn more of a "look at me I'm a massive protestant".

 

I saw a bandsman wearing a poppy the size of his face in August. what's that got to do with remembrance sunday in November?

 

Brilliant post

 

The Poppy in the North is a completely different thing than it is in England.The bandsman wearing a poppy the size of his face sums its up nicely,

 

Its incredible the ironic nature of the response from many a fella in my work said "its a disgrace he should have been made to wear it"

 

Incredible.

 

Its freighting that people can't see in this instance though that the lad has every right to be a bit sensitive on the issue,and even if he had none of the background at all that he has every right not to wear it.

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So I've put away my anger,I'm not even going to try and explain the reasons why I have strong views on this subject other than to say my family, like most,had people who fought fascists, who need remembering for what they did.

 

It's good that you remember them, and it's good that other people do, whether or not they wear a badge to say so, but that freedom of choice to do or not to do things is just what they fought for isn't it?

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