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I’ve got an audiobook on the go called Stalin’s War. 
 

This encounter was something I may only have been vaguely aware of, but it’s

key to how WW2 developed, especially the Far Eastern theatre. 

 

Zhukov won the first of his 4 Heroes of the Soviet Union awards here. 2

other commanders were later shot in 1941 purges.

 

All before WW2 proper.

 

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/08/27/japan-strikes-north-how-battle-khalkhin-gol-transformed-wwii.html/amp

 

Here’s the Wiki link.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol?wprov=sfti1

 

Thought this was particularly hardcore.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwantung_Army?wprov=sfti1

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@Kepler-186

There is a legitimate argument to be made that WW2 started in 1931 when the Japanese invaded Korea before moving on to China and trying to go after Eastern Russia again. The Russo-Japanese war of 1904/05 is what put Japan on the map as a potential superpower. 

 

Rokossovsky and his lack of finger nails and steel teeth should be a interesting part of that book. 

 

 

One of the saddest things about that war is how quickly it could have been stopped. If the French had a legitimate government in 1938/39 and the British moved faster they could have stopped the war before even Czechs fell. Or even if both had been willing to do a actual deal with Stalin before the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact been agreed. The French army could have crushed the Germans with better leadership. They pushed up and across the German border in 1939 while the Germans invaded Poland and had the generals not all been so entrenched in their beliefs a war would be fought like WW1 so moved slowly they could have been in Berlin before the Germans could react. There's a big myth with the German army and how advanced it was,and Blitzkreig but it ignores just how reliant the Germans where on horses to tow supplies and field guns. 

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8 hours ago, Lee909 said:

@Kepler-186

There is a legitimate argument to be made that WW2 started in 1931 when the Japanese invaded Korea before moving on to China and trying to go after Eastern Russia again. The Russo-Japanese war of 1904/05 is what put Japan on the map as a potential superpower. 

 

Rokossovsky and his lack of finger nails and steel teeth should be a interesting part of that book. 

 

 

One of the saddest things about that war is how quickly it could have been stopped. If the French had a legitimate government in 1938/39 and the British moved faster they could have stopped the war before even Czechs fell. Or even if both had been willing to do a actual deal with Stalin before the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact been agreed. The French army could have crushed the Germans with better leadership. They pushed up and across the German border in 1939 while the Germans invaded Poland and had the generals not all been so entrenched in their beliefs a war would be fought like WW1 so moved slowly they could have been in Berlin before the Germans could react. There's a big myth with the German army and how advanced it was,and Blitzkreig but it ignores just how reliant the Germans where on horses to tow supplies and field guns. 

And as you have mentioned before,perhaps one of the main reasons the Americans dropped the atom bombs on Japan was to stop Russia and Stalin trying to take revenge and wreak havoc on Japan itself?

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8 hours ago, Lee909 said:

@Kepler-186

There is a legitimate argument to be made that WW2 started in 1931 when the Japanese invaded Korea before moving on to China and trying to go after Eastern Russia again. The Russo-Japanese war of 1904/05 is what put Japan on the map as a potential superpower. 

 

Rokossovsky and his lack of finger nails and steel teeth should be a interesting part of that book. 

 

 

One of the saddest things about that war is how quickly it could have been stopped. If the French had a legitimate government in 1938/39 and the British moved faster they could have stopped the war before even Czechs fell. Or even if both had been willing to do a actual deal with Stalin before the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact been agreed. The French army could have crushed the Germans with better leadership. They pushed up and across the German border in 1939 while the Germans invaded Poland and had the generals not all been so entrenched in their beliefs a war would be fought like WW1 so moved slowly they could have been in Berlin before the Germans could react. There's a big myth with the German army and how advanced it was,and Blitzkreig but it ignores just how reliant the Germans where on horses to tow supplies and field guns. 

Absolutely. The book I’m listening to reveals how Stalin wanted to provoke an attritional war between the Western Great Powers and Nazi Germany , and was beside himself when they were defeated in 1940. Britain and France were planning to bomb Baku’s oil refineries from Iraq, and potentially attack from Syria. This produced the oil both Soviet Union and Germany relied on. 

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6 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

And as you have mentioned before,perhaps one of the main reasons the Americans dropped the atom bombs on Japan was to stop Russia and Stalin trying to take revenge and wreak havoc on Japan itself?

No i don't think they cared about Soviet revenge but they did imo care about sharing control of Japan with them. That would have been a real danger as it would have left most of main land Asia under Communist government and with India obvious independence coming a real threat that the world would be split in two. And India,Vietnam,Thailand,Phillipines all ending up Communist. 

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1 hour ago, Lee909 said:

No i don't think they cared about Soviet revenge but they did imo care about sharing control of Japan with them. That would have been a real danger as it would have left most of main land Asia under Communist government and with India obvious independence coming a real threat that the world would be split in two. And India,Vietnam,Thailand,Phillipines all ending up Communist. 

I wasn't saying the US cared about Soviet revenge more how they wouldn't have total control of Japan in the way they wanted as the Soviets would be occupying at least part of it. Pretty much what you said actually!

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More history you were never taught in school.

Battle of Bamber Bridge
Jun 24, 1943 – Jun 25, 1943

On this day in 1943 black American soldiers faced off with white American Military police during World War II on British soil. Yes you read correctly black American soldiers had to fight their own white American soldiers, while in England, where they were fighting for the world.

Why? Because the English town of Bamber Bridge in Lancashire was not segregated so they treated the black soldiers like all other races, aka blacks were free to eat, drink anywhere, BUT back in America segregation of blacks and whites still existed. So essentially the American army went to someone else’s country and demanded they adopted America’s racist practices

So when the American Military police found out that their own black American soldiers were drinking at the same pubs as white people they went in to arrest them. The people in the town got mad about the treatment of the black soldiers and decided to then turn their pubs into “BLACKS ONLY DRINKING PUBS” the very opposite of what was taking place in America with their WHITES ONLY businesses.

Of course this pissed off the American military so guns went blazing, and when word spread back at camp that black soldiers had been shot, scores of men formed a crowd, some carrying rifles and by midnight more American military police arrived with a machine gun-equipped vehicle, so the black soldiers had no choice but to get rifles from British stores while others barricaded themselves back on base, so now it was American white soldiers versus American black soldiers. This lead to the death of one solider, injury of 7, and 32 convictions.

Back in America the battle was hushed up because they didn’t want the country to find out that they were fighting their own soldiers which would anger the black population and weaken the morale in the country.

You may read about the ill treatment of black American soldiers by their own army in the book FORGOTTEN.

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1 hour ago, Scottish Steve said:

More history you were never taught in school.

Battle of Bamber Bridge
Jun 24, 1943 – Jun 25, 1943

On this day in 1943 black American soldiers faced off with white American Military police during World War II on British soil. Yes you read correctly black American soldiers had to fight their own white American soldiers, while in England, where they were fighting for the world.

Why? Because the English town of Bamber Bridge in Lancashire was not segregated so they treated the black soldiers like all other races, aka blacks were free to eat, drink anywhere, BUT back in America segregation of blacks and whites still existed. So essentially the American army went to someone else’s country and demanded they adopted America’s racist practices

So when the American Military police found out that their own black American soldiers were drinking at the same pubs as white people they went in to arrest them. The people in the town got mad about the treatment of the black soldiers and decided to then turn their pubs into “BLACKS ONLY DRINKING PUBS” the very opposite of what was taking place in America with their WHITES ONLY businesses.

Of course this pissed off the American military so guns went blazing, and when word spread back at camp that black soldiers had been shot, scores of men formed a crowd, some carrying rifles and by midnight more American military police arrived with a machine gun-equipped vehicle, so the black soldiers had no choice but to get rifles from British stores while others barricaded themselves back on base, so now it was American white soldiers versus American black soldiers. This lead to the death of one solider, injury of 7, and 32 convictions.

Back in America the battle was hushed up because they didn’t want the country to find out that they were fighting their own soldiers which would anger the black population and weaken the morale in the country.

You may read about the ill treatment of black American soldiers by their own army in the book FORGOTTEN.

I've read about this before. Fuckin disgusting stuff.

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On 03/07/2021 at 18:48, Kepler-186 said:

I’ve got an audiobook on the go called Stalin’s War. 
 

This encounter was something I may only have been vaguely aware of, but it’s

key to how WW2 developed, especially the Far Eastern theatre. 

 

Zhukov won the first of his 4 Heroes of the Soviet Union awards here. 2

other commanders were later shot in 1941 purges.

 

All before WW2 proper.

 

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/08/27/japan-strikes-north-how-battle-khalkhin-gol-transformed-wwii.html/amp

 

Here’s the Wiki link.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol?wprov=sfti1

 

Thought this was particularly hardcore.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwantung_Army?wprov=sfti1

That bit about America pardoning the Japanese who had been involved in the experiments is shocking.

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7 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

That bit about America pardoning the Japanese who had been involved in the experiments is shocking.

Yeah, and acting on their own accord and ignoring orders from Tokyo. Mental. 

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On 19/03/2021 at 23:42, Lee909 said:

Nabbed a few interesting books from Audible in the last few sales. 

Now just need to find the time to listen to them all. 

Anyone read any of them? 

 

Screenshot_20210319_233423_com.audible.application.jpg

Screenshot_20210319_232356_com.audible.application.jpg

Screenshot_20210319_232349_com.audible.application.jpg

Screenshot_20210319_232339_com.audible.application.jpg

Screenshot_20210319_234146.jpg

Is The Anarchy any good?  Been listening to some of the India-set Sharpes and it's whet my appetite. 

 

Been listening to Genghis Khan and the making of the Modern World. Pretty good stuff, especially in terms of how the propaganda around him was so significant in creating the image that has stuck for the best part of a millenium.

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2 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Is The Anarchy any good?  Been listening to some of the India-set Sharpes and it's whet my appetite. 

 

Been listening to Genghis Khan and the making of the Modern World. Pretty good stuff, especially in terms of how the propaganda around him was so significant in creating the image that has stuck for the best part of a millenium.

Ive not listened to it yet. 

Funnily enough I've just listened to the same Sharpe books. Just finished Sharpes Trafalgar the other day. 

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22 hours ago, Lee909 said:

@Kepler-186

There is a legitimate argument to be made that WW2 started in 1931 when the Japanese invaded Korea before moving on to China and trying to go after Eastern Russia again. The Russo-Japanese war of 1904/05 is what put Japan on the map as a potential superpower. 

 

Rokossovsky and his lack of finger nails and steel teeth should be a interesting part of that book. 

 

 

One of the saddest things about that war is how quickly it could have been stopped. If the French had a legitimate government in 1938/39 and the British moved faster they could have stopped the war before even Czechs fell. Or even if both had been willing to do a actual deal with Stalin before the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact been agreed. The French army could have crushed the Germans with better leadership. They pushed up and across the German border in 1939 while the Germans invaded Poland and had the generals not all been so entrenched in their beliefs a war would be fought like WW1 so moved slowly they could have been in Berlin before the Germans could react. There's a big myth with the German army and how advanced it was,and Blitzkreig but it ignores just how reliant the Germans where on horses to tow supplies and field guns. 

Sure I read somewhere that stalin wanted to do a deal with us but churchill would gladly have gernany and Russia slug it out,and we could take on the (knackered)winner

 

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1 minute ago, Arniepie said:

Sure I read somewhere that stalin wanted to do a deal with us but churchill would gladly have gernany and Russia slug it out,and we could take on the (knackered)winner

 

That was Stalins initial plan. He wanted a European war and to sweep up afterward. 

 

We and France sent a delegation but it was second rate officials who had no ok to actually sign off any deal. And it just added to Stalins paranoia that the West just wanted him to fight the Germans on there behalf. 

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8 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

That was Stalins initial plan. He wanted a European war and to sweep up afterward. 

 

We and France sent a delegation but it was second rate officials who had no ok to actually sign off any deal. And it just added to Stalins paranoia that the West just wanted him to fight the Germans on there behalf. 

Sounds like he wasnt far off tbh.

 

Love that period in history 

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On 04/07/2021 at 07:57, Kepler-186 said:

Absolutely. The book I’m listening to reveals how Stalin wanted to provoke an attritional war between the Western Great Powers and Nazi Germany , and was beside himself when they were defeated in 1940.

The First World War boosted communism's popularity throughout Europe. With another lingering war of attrition, communism would have flourished and Stalin could have been perceived as the heroic leader, bringing peace and salvation to the peoples of Europe. Blitzkrieg was a shock.

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38 minutes ago, M_B said:

The First World War boosted communism's popularity throughout Europe. With another lingering war of attrition, communism would have flourished and Stalin could have been perceived as the heroic leader, bringing peace and salvation to the peoples of Europe. Blitzkrieg was a shock.

I’m reading up on the actions of both the Germans and Soviets in Poland in 1939/1940. It’s staggering the numbers killed in a systematic way, even early on in the war. I had the book The Volunteer by Jack Fairweather recently about the Polish Army officer who volunteered to be captured and sent to Auswitzch. Covers the Warsaw uprising. Russians let the Germans destroy the Polish Underground, and therefore resistance to Soviet communism. 

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2 hours ago, Kepler-186 said:

I’m reading up on the actions of both the Germans and Soviets in Poland in 1939/1940. It’s staggering the numbers killed in a systematic way, even early on in the war. I had the book The Volunteer by Jack Fairweather recently about the Polish Army officer who volunteered to be captured and sent to Auswitzch. Covers the Warsaw uprising. Russians let the Germans destroy the Polish Underground, and therefore resistance to Soviet communism. 

Add the massacre at Katyn forest

22,000 Polish murderED by the NKVD

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1 hour ago, Lee909 said:

Add the massacre at Katyn forest

22,000 Polish murderED by the NKVD

Yeah, the officer class, aristocrats, clergy and intelligensia were targeted by both the Germans and Russians. I have a clear memory of some German propaganda about Katyn in one of my Dad’s books on WW2. The film is worth watching. 

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20 hours ago, Lee909 said:

 

We and France sent a delegation but it was second rate officials who had no ok to actually sign off any deal. And it just added to Stalins paranoia that the West just wanted him to fight the Germans on there behalf. 

Moreover, they went by boat, not plane. Chamberlain wanted to string out negotiations in the hope that Hitler wouldn't take action against Poland until 1940, by which time Britain and France would be stronger.

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85th anniversary of the start of the Spanish Civil War recently. (Last month I thought I posted on the day) 
 

Good article here from the Young Communist League’s magazine about the International Brigades, with some good links.

 

https://challenge-magazine.org/2021/07/17/ycl100-the-spanish-civil-war-and-the-international-brigades/?fbclid=IwAR09MJIj4n6MMTka6zbUMLp7OU7tZNKDifD5ejsnGEzRC-STlfgQNAk06mo

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Been on a WW2 audiobook binge.

 

Recommend Operation Pedestal by Max Hastings about the convoy that saved Malta. Stirring stuff. 
 

Started A Bridge Too Far by Cornelius Ryan on Operation Market Garden. 
 

Reading a memoir by a Canadian RAF Beaufighter navigator called Whispering Death My Wartime Adventures (by Lee Heide). It’s excellent. 

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Started A Bridge Too Far by Cornelius Ryan on Operation Market Garden. 

 

The narration killed that for me

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1 hour ago, Lee909 said:

Started A Bridge Too Far by Cornelius Ryan on Operation Market Garden. 

 

The narration killed that for me

Yeah, it’s not the easiest to listen to. 

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