TLW History Thread

[SasaS]

3 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I went on another of Laurence Westgaph's excellent walking tours, focusing on Liverpool's slavery history.  Definitely recommended.  You think you already know stuff, but the extent to which the Transatlantic slave trade - and all the subsequent trade that depended on slavery - runs through the history of our city, even to today, is far more than you'd realise.

 

It's no surprise to learn that the city's ruling class were solidly on the side of the slave states during the American Civil War.  The Confederate cannons which fired the first shots of the war at Fort Sumter came from an iron foundry just off Duke Street.  (The site is now a residential block called The Foundry.)  The final action of the war was the surrender of the CSS Shenandoah, which sailed around the world to get to the Mersey, rather than surrender to the Yankees.  The captain and crew were feted by Liverpool's civic leaders.

 

It's tempting to say "That was then, but this is now".  Generally speaking, the city's relationship with the slave trade (and the slave economy) splits into three periods: a time when the city was proud of the wealth and prestige it brought; a time (say, from the early 20th Century) when we went to lengths not to talk about it; and a more modern age (say, from the opening of the slavery gallery at the maritime museum) when we're acknowledging it for the evil that it was and finding ways to come to terms with it.

 

This last process isn't as far advanced as we'd like to think.  We still have a tendency to celebrate Liverpool's links with abolitionism and gloss over the centuries in which the city boomed due to human misery.   As recently as 2015, Mike Storey headed the official welcome party for the Sons of Confederate Veterans (a group with strong ties to white supremacists) and a plaque was unveiled, honouring the "courageous" crew of the Shenandoah.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/08/world/liverpool-confederate-links-intl-cnnphotos/

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/blockade-busting-arms-supplies-surprising-20394350

 

 

 

To be fair, whenever a civilization "booms", it is mostly at the expense of someone else and their misery.

[Frank Dacey]

The American Civil War would also have impacted heavily on the port and dockside industries of Liverpool and therefore of the Liverpool working class. The Union's blockade of the Confederate's ports would have drastically reduced imports of American cotton and tobacco into Liverpool. Despite their suffering, the working classes were solidly behind the north in the struggle to abolish slavery, not just in Liverpool but throughout Lancashire and elsewhere. This steady and peaceful support for the anti-slavery movement is often regarded as an important reason why some of the working class were given the vote in 1868.

[easytoslip]

17 hours ago, Frank Dacey said:

The American Civil War would also have impacted heavily on the port and dockside industries of Liverpool and therefore of the Liverpool working class. The Union's blockade of the Confederate's ports would have drastically reduced imports of American cotton and tobacco into Liverpool. Despite their suffering, the working classes were solidly behind the north in the struggle to abolish slavery, not just in Liverpool but throughout Lancashire and elsewhere. This steady and peaceful support for the anti-slavery movement is often regarded as an important reason why some of the working class were given the vote in 1868.

Wasn't there somewhere in Lancashire that had a lot to do with the anti slavery movement? For some reason Nelson springs to mind? 

[Kepler-186]

Interesting listen about the 1855 Lager Beer riots in Chicago. 

Reminds me of Gangs of New York. 
 

“Ears and noses may be the trophies of the day”. 

 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2ZQbAfoybGyDikCIhBh8DX?si=BTJTYthgSxSnggIU-DfNCQ

[Kepler-186]

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Edited February 9, 2022 by Kepler-186
Double post

[Kepler-186]

 

Fell down a Twitter rabbit hole just now and discovered this article. 
 

All about the famine in Stalin’s USSR in the 30s, and how one journalist in particular, Walter Duranty, Moscow correspondent for the New York Times and born in Liverpool, helped cover it up in the West. 
 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/walter-duranty-ukraine-new-york-times-mr-jones-agnieszka-holland

 

 

[polymerpunkah]

2 hours ago, Kepler-186 said:

 

Fell down a Twitter rabbit hole just now and discovered this article. 
 

All about the famine in Stalin’s USSR in the 30s, and how one journalist in particular, Walter Duranty, Moscow correspondent for the New York Times and born in Liverpool, helped cover it up in the West. 
 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/walter-duranty-ukraine-new-york-times-mr-jones-agnieszka-holland

 

 

 

 

The dynamic between the left in the west and Stalin's USSR over time would make a fascinating book.

 

 

[Arniepie]

2 hours ago, Kepler-186 said:

 

Fell down a Twitter rabbit hole just now and discovered this article. 
 

All about the famine in Stalin’s USSR in the 30s, and how one journalist in particular, Walter Duranty, Moscow correspondent for the New York Times and born in Liverpool, helped cover it up in the West. 
 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/walter-duranty-ukraine-new-york-times-mr-jones-agnieszka-holland

 

 

The film is really good 

[Jennings]

 

 

[Lee909]

Just been announced that the sunken wreck of The Endurance(Shackleton) ship has been found. 100 years to the day Shackleton was buried. 

 

3,008 metres (9,869 ft) deep

 

Perfect conditions in the freezing waters in the Antarctic 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, Jennings said:

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Lee909 said:

Just been announced that the sunken wreck of The Endurance(Shackleton) ship has been found. 100 years to the day Shackleton was buried. 

 

3,008 metres (9,869 ft) deep

 

Perfect conditions in the freezing waters in the Antarctic 

 

 

 

 

 

You wait 100 years for a ship to be found then two come along at once 

[Lee909]

Ha

Didn't check, just pulled up thread and posted 

[Jennings]

Muscling in on my nice little earner!

 

Posts a better link with some better pictures then fucks off.

[VladimirIlyich]

It's coming home. Those ingurland morons werent as stupid as we thought. They werent talking about f**tball but shipwrecks.

[dockers_strike]

Stonehenge isnt mentioned in any surviving Roman literature!

 

Weird that considering it's fucking enormous, was stood on what is now Salisbury Plain even when Romans were ruling Britain for over 400 years!

[Bjornebye]

9 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Stonehenge isnt mentioned in any surviving Roman literature!

 

Weird that considering it's fucking enormous, was stood on what is now Salisbury Plain even when Romans were ruling Britain for over 400 years!

The A303 can be unpredictable mate  

[MOGLET]

On 10/11/2012 at 10:33, brucespanner said:

Hitler, great statesman, bit of a shit, discuss?

Say what you like about hilter, but, he did kill hitler

[Kepler-186]

Anyone with an Audible account I can recommend a couple of audiobooks that are included in the membership. 
 

The author is Mark Zuehlke, a Canadian, and he’s done a complete series covering the Canadian WW2 experience.

 

I started with Juno Beach, but have just started one called Ortona, when the Canadians came up against elite German paras, in southern Italy, and the fighting was so intense it was named “little Stalingrad” for its intensity. 
 

There’s lots there, and it’s interesting to get an non UK or US perspective. 

[JohnnyH]

I was at Fords Theatre a few weeks back. And then here. Apologies for the mug, I’ve no photo without me. 
 

 

[Anubis]

Didn’t really know where to put this, but what magnificent craftsmanship.

 

 

[KMD7]

On 21/03/2022 at 23:27, dockers_strike said:

Stonehenge isnt mentioned in any surviving Roman literature!

 

Weird that considering it's fucking enormous, was stood on what is now Salisbury Plain even when Romans were ruling Britain for over 400 years!

  

 

Facking Ston'enge. 

[polymerpunkah]

50th anniversary of the "Napalm Girl" photo.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/50-napalm-girl-kim-phuc-ukraine-1.6484977

 

(A young Vietnamese girl hit by US napalm during that war.)

[Kepler-186]

Found this interesting link to the Internet Archive. 
 

 

[Mudface]

5 minutes ago, Kepler-186 said:

Found this interesting link to the Internet Archive. 
 

 

Any decent porn? I've nearly finished XHamster.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 hours ago, Mudface said:

Any decent porn? I've nearly finished XHamster.

The final boss on that is terrifying.