Quantcast
"Kick it Out" campaign - Page 4 - FF - Football Forum - The Liverpool Way Jump to content

Recommended Posts

The kick to out campaign should be the 'ssshhh' campaign, in other words stay as racist as you like but just don't bring it here.

 

That is it in a nutshell!

 

All football is doing is ensuring racism is not heard in the ground. Plus, I know from experience it is better to shut your mouth and let them spout their shite than get involved and potentially get the shit kicked out of you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do use racially offensive language (and sexist, homophobic, and general offensive language), usually in company with my friends when we are in private. I know full well it is offensive, but my freinds know I would never use it in public or without their consent.

 

I think what we find acceptable in a humorous context is something we can all separate from how we would behave in a different context. If it happens outside of that context, it's a completely different kettle of fish. You have to be very comfortable with each other's boundaries to get away with that sort of thing.

 

I wouldn't call someone a terrorist because they're muslim either by the way, but then everyone I know who's muslim finds terrorism abhorrent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Someone may use a racial slur purely for the purposes of baiting without holding any animosity more broadly towards that person, or their race, and hold no supremacist views of any description.

 

The difference between us then, is that I don't find that any more acceptable and don't choose to make a distinction in that regard. It's not something I would do myself and I don't tolerate it in others. In any case its impact is just the same.

 

Great post from davelfc by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think what we find acceptable in a humorous context is something we can all separate from how we would behave in a different context. If it happens outside of that context, it's a completely different kettle of fish. You have to be very comfortable with each other's boundaries to get away with that sort of thing.

 

I wouldn't call someone a terrorist because they're muslim either by the way, but then everyone I know who's muslim finds terrorism abhorrent.

 

That is my point though Zig, I wouldn't describe you as ignorant! A lot of prejudices are founded within the environment that you grow up in, not all, but a lot of stereotype's and beliefs are I think developed and inherited from family and freinds and what they think, it might be about immigrants, race, women or gay people. I know people from growing up who never leave Walton, the odd night in town aside they drink down Country road, if they are lucky enough to work it is local, and their entire social construct is confined to a square mile - in this context I would argue their beliefs are through ignorance rather than genuine beliefs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is my point though Zig, I wouldn't describe you as ignorant! A lot of prejudices are founded within the environment that you grow up in, not all, but a lot of stereotype's and beliefs are I think developed and inherited from family and freinds and what they think, it might be about immigrants, race, women or gay people. I know people from growing up who never leave Walton, the odd night in town aside they drink down Country road, if they are lucky enough to work it is local, and their entire social construct is confined to a square mile - in this context I would argue their beliefs are through ignorance rather than genuine beliefs.

 

I used to know a fella who openly told me he was a racist once. I asked him why and he said he didn't want to be, but sometimes he would get cut up by someone for example, and he'd think "you black bastard", so if that was what he thought, then he must be a racist.

 

I told him that might be the first thing that pops into my head as well in that situation, but then I'd tell myself that no, that's wrong, and it's not what I really believe; it's just the natural human response to pick up on what's different.

 

You don't have to accept ignorance when you know something is wrong. In yourself or in other people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest davelfc
As black players, we need to stick together and make sure we do not put up with being racially abused.

 

BBC Sport - Racism: FA 'loyalty' to Terry shows problem is still alive - Langley

 

I'm sorry but that's a terrible comment. As a team players need to stick together to look after their fellow team mates. Sticking together against racist or any other kind of abuse. While we have players advocating groups based on the colour of skin you'll never see this problem eradicated. It just stays a them and us, which is wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This "racism in English football" issue is being blown out of proportion. There's always going to be isolated incidents of racism but by and large our game is free of racism. The focus needs to be on the continent where racist chanting among fans is common and accepted. When was the last time fans in this country were accused of widespread racial chanting? It doesn't happen here.

 

John Barnes made the best point about this in a recent article. The issue of racism is societal. You can't expect football fans from some backward country in Eastern Europe to be racially tolerant when the concept doesn't exist in their country. And boneheaded football yobs are going to be even less enlightened about racial equality.

 

Until their society changes to embrace other races their football fans will continue to behave this way. Of course UEFA/FIFA can mitigate this by banning their fans and their clubs which would reduce these sort of incidents but we know these organisations never take the issue of racial abuse seriously, preferring to hand out paltry fines rather than serious action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have to accept ignorance when you know something is wrong. In yourself or in other people.

 

You're educated though, so you can discern when something is wrong!

 

I don't think other people have that ability! Not just regarding racism but they have points of view formed from their environment and not from personal experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's probably possible to decry racist chanting in continental football and at the same time find it unacceptable for the England captain to call someone a black cunt.

 

You're educated though, so you can discern when something is wrong!

 

I don't think other people have that ability! Not just regarding racism but they have points of view formed from their environment and not from experience.

 

Ignorance is no defence in law. Otherwise you could use the same argument to condone violence against women or drunk driving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it's probably possible to decry racist chanting in continental football and at the same time find it unacceptable for the England captain to call someone a black cunt.

 

 

 

Ignorance is no defence in law. Otherwise you could use the same argument to condone violence against women or drunk driving.

 

You are spot on. I am not referencing law, but to me that is the problem. I was involved in a project that was sending school kids from underprivilaged areas to Shanghai, at least 70% didn't have a passport and their parents did not have a passport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are spot on. I am not referencing law, but to me that is the problem. I was involved in a project that was sending school kids from underprivilaged areas to Shanghai, at least 70% didn't have a passport and their parents did not have a passport.

 

That probably comes with the territory of being underpriveleged mate. I think davelfc got the nail on the head when he said education is the key. I've been on equality and diversity courses with people from all different backgrounds, and when you can openly discuss these issues with the people affected by them it helps a great deal both in understanding your own attitudes and what it's like to grow up in an environment where you're the victim of ignorance.

 

Terry has had ample exposure to people from different backgrounds though. I'm not going to make any excuses for him. He knows better and did it anyway. If that's not racist, then I'm not interested in the distinction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That probably comes with the territory of being underpriveleged mate. I think davelfc got the nail on the head when he said education is the key. I've been on equality and diversity courses with people from all different backgrounds, and when you can openly discuss these issues with the people affected by them it helps a great deal both in understanding your own attitudes and what it's like to grow up in an environment where you're the victim of ignorance.

 

Terry has had ample exposure to people from different backgrounds though. I'm not going to make any excuses for him. He knows better and did it anyway. If that's not racist, then I'm not interested in the distinction.

 

It is down to education, it is quite simple in that way - but there is also a question of environment, you can work with kids as much as you like but they return to an environment which, if it views learning as something for other people, your work is wasted.

 

Terry has no excuse - he works with different ethnicities on a daily basis so I don't think ignorance is an issue. To me he knew full what he was saying and how offensive it was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can people really not make a distinction between a racist and someone who has used racist language?

Did the reports that people have accepted as proof of guilt not make this separation as well as the victims of the abuse?

 

I do not think there is a racism problem in football in this country.

 

I do think the whole problem we have now has been exacerbated by the extremely poor handling of both the Suarez and Terry cases.

The whole problem has perpetuated itself somewhat with the way the cases were allowed to fester and then with the subsequent fall outs.

 

I think it was xerses who said that any racism cases should be dealt with by the police first and foremost and any football related punishment be dealt out on the back of their findings and i think this is the only to do this.

 

Any subsequent punishment needs to be pre determined to provide consistency and transparency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can people really not make a distinction between a racist and someone who has used racist language?

 

Only if you can explain what it is. Let me ask you the same as I asked Whelan; would you use that language yourself in that context?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A member of my family is in my opinion a racist, he keeps on arguing that he is'nt and that he just uses phrases for effect - and that am just being sensitive, so I said to him once - use the same words you would use in work, in a boardroom, to your boss, if you wouldn't say it there then don't say it to me!

 

He is one of those idiots who seem to think 'fat bastard' is the same as 'black bastard' and struggles to understand the different history and connotations of both phrases.

 

I disagree slightly with Zig in that I don't think it is important whether or not you 'use' the words, it is whether or not you acknowledge how offensive they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Only if you can explain what it is. Let me ask you the same as I asked Whelan; would you use that language yourself in that context?

 

The way i see it is this(to save pages i am going to write this very simply), If i am a racist i believe that based on the colour of my skin i am in some way superior to another person who has a different coloured skin.

Based on that premise i believe that they should be treat less favourably than myself and in cases be treat badly and persecuted for that reason.

 

Someone can use a derogatory racist slur in the heat of the moment purely down to the fact it was designed to be offensive and hurtful and it can be no indication of someones deep seated beliefs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The way i see it is this(to save pages i am going to write this very simply), If i am a racist i believe that based on the colour of my skin i am in some way superior to another person who has a different coloured skin.

Based on that premise i believe that they should be treat less favourably than myself and in cases be treat badly and persecuted for that reason.

 

Someone can use a derogatory racist slur in the heat of the moment purely down to the fact it was designed to be offensive and hurtful and it can be no indication of someones deep seated beliefs.

 

You don't see that a racially motivated insult is persecution based on someone's race then?

 

My argument is that if you're prepared to do it you should be happy enough to wear the label.

Edited by zigackly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The words "braindead fucking idiot" don't even come close where you're concerned.

 

I think the point being made here,whether intentional or not is what actually is racism in football and what does it constitute?

We've seen somebody mention the colour of a persons skin and get an 8 match ban and somebody use the colour of somebody's skin to verbally abuse them get a 4 match ban.

So what are the punishments regarding racial statements and what constitutes the degree of severity?

Its a mess so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The way i see it is this(to save pages i am going to write this very simply), If i am a racist i believe that based on the colour of my skin i am in some way superior to another person who has a different coloured skin.

Based on that premise i believe that they should be treat less favourably than myself and in cases be treat badly and persecuted for that reason.

 

Someone can use a derogatory racist slur in the heat of the moment purely down to the fact it was designed to be offensive and hurtful and it can be no indication of someones deep seated beliefs.

 

Ah, the classic "I didn't really mean it" defence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You don't see that a racially motivated insult is persecution based on someone's race then?

 

My argument is that if you're prepared to do it you should be happy enough to wear the label.

 

I am saying that a comment can be used to hurt and offend without being an indication of someone's beliefs.

 

Have you ever said something you didn't mean? or ever said something that had no other motivation than to cause maximum hurt and offence to the person you aimed it at?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am saying that a comment can be used to hurt and offend without being an indication of someone's beliefs.

 

Have you ever said something you didn't mean? or ever said something that had no other motivation than to cause maximum hurt and offence to the person you aimed it at?

 

I post on the FF regularly, but I don't think I've ever been intentionally racist, no. I'd like to think I'm a better class of cunt than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to give a shit about any of this. A few instances have happened between individuals the media has created a hysteria and now it's some huge rasist problem sweeping the country. There isn't and thick egotistical fucks like Rio Ferdinand and Jason Roberts just want to be martyrs to a cause. The kick it out campaign is for young supporters, a chance to see their idols collectively condemning the judgement of people by the colour of their skin, I think the players should still have sent that message, they have tried to be noble or some shit and missed the point.

 

You want to hear common sense from a black footballer on the issue of race then John Barnes as always is the man, at least he's coherent unlike rio...... And me.

 

I've got to be honest my view is slightly tainted I just can't stand rio Ferdinand the fact he exists pisses me off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I post on the FF regularly, but I don't think I've ever been intentionally racist, no. I'd like to think I'm a better class of cunt than that.

 

i didn't mean on here, i meant generally and i didn't say anything racist, i just said anything that was designed to have maximum hurtful impact?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×