Early thoughts on Rodgers

[stringvest]

yes we did. I wouldn't mind reading a report on players that read something like '...and Stuart Downing will be sidelined for up to 5 months as doctors work on fixing his head.'

[Skidfingers McGonical]

If you weren't such an idiot, with such a stupid face, and such a stupid post, he'd probably bother replying to you. But you are. So he won't.

 

Bit harsh that, just because I am doing Movember there is no need for that level of insult.

[stringvest]

Fuck Richard Steadman. Get him sent to Mr Miyagi.

[zigackly]

I wasn't sold on Rodgers either. But to give him only 11 matches before people are convinced he's not the right man for the job, is not giving him a chance at all. My early thoughts are that it's a bit too early to come to a conclusion about Rodgers. Comparing performance for the first third or even first half of his season (that hasn't even happened yet) to former managers right now, doesn't tell me everything. except that scoring goals is still an issue. But it won't stop people from making those comparisons and judgements.

 

I think it's a bit sad how we leap to the logical extreme so often on the FF, of every argument which is presented for debate, so that any criticism of Rodgers for instance, becomes a judgement that he is not the right man for the job, and any defence of Dalglish, a man who deserves a bit of understanding and leeway if anyone associated with the club ever did, becomes an agenda against Rodgers.

 

It is possible to hold and even discuss opinions in between the most extreme ones, and even to acknowledge the validity in points of view which differ from our own.

 

Hence I can believe that Rodgers has done a naive and fumbling job so far, and that much of the criticism of Dalglish has been over the top and even in some cases hypocritical, whilst still hoping Rodgers can improve, and is given time and backing to realise his vision.

[xerxes]

I think it's a bit sad how we leap to the logical extreme so often on the FF, of every argument which is presented for debate, so that any criticism of Rodgers for instance, becomes a judgement that he is not the right man for the job, and any defence of Dalglish, a man who deserves a bit of understanding and leeway if anyone associated with the club ever did, becomes an agenda against Rodgers.

 

It is possible to hold and even discuss opinions in between the most extreme ones, and even to acknowledge the validity in points of view which differ from our own.

 

Hence I can believe that Rodgers has done a naive and fumbling job so far, and that much of the criticism of Dalglish has been over the top and even in some cases hypocritical, whilst still hoping Rodgers can improve, and is given time and backing to realise his vision.

 

I agree with what you say on Rodgers. It is perfectly possible to back him, as I do, whilst holding doubts.

 

On KK you offer evidence for the defence and prosecution. Second time around some of what he did was good, some was not.

 

Your plea for leeway is unnecessary. He knew the deal, he wanted the job knowing the pressure. He never asked for a free pass, as he would never have given special dispensation to anyone on the staff for past services rendered over and beyond the quality of what they were delivering here and now.

[xerxes]

How the actual fuck would that work?

 

"Jordan, I want to imagine that Jamie Carragher has passed you the ball 40 yards from your own goal. An opposition player is moving towards you. He looks angry in some ways, and very determined to wrest possession back from you, should the opportunity arise. Do you:

 

A) Turn, head up and assess you passing options

B) Advance forwards, confident that you can use pace and skill to outmanouevre him

C) Shit yourself, panic and lay the ball off sideways in the hope that one of your players is there

 

You may only choose one option"

 

Ouch!:P

[fin-bat]

There are 45,000 people there idolising them and singing songs about them, and they can't be fucking 'arsed'? How about pride? How about playing for the hell of playing and winning, putting a smile on people's faces. What fucking lofty personal standards the likes of Henderson, Downing, Enrique, Carroll, Adam have that they can't raise their game unless they're getting in the CL...yeah, the long personal history they have of competing at the highest level, it must have come as a real fucking shock for them to not be in the CL once more.

 

 

Forget Henderson and Downing for a second, think of Reina for example. For five years he was one of the best goalies in the world, then suddenly last season he started leaking like a sleeve. Couldn´t catch a beach ball when it was handed to him... ok, that was a year or two before, but anyway, last seasons dip in form was in big part down to Reinas shit form. Eveything went in. What happened to him ? You say that there are 45000 people singing songs about them, they should be arsed, but obviously Reina doesn´t agree with you. Or how do you see the situation ? Was it Kennys fault that he didn´t trust Brad when it became obvious Reina was not his usual self ? Brad did well last season, but he was the third goalie. That brasilian guy wasn´t that good, so I kind of understand sticking with Reina. Unfortunately it didn´t work out too well and I think Reina already had something else in his mind. We have seen the best of him, I´m afraid.

[Trumo]

Forget Henderson and Downing for a second, think of Reina for example. For five years he was one of the best goalies in the world, then suddenly last season he started leaking like a sleeve. Couldn´t catch a beach ball when it was handed to him... ok, that was a year or two before, but anyway, last seasons dip in form was in big part down to Reinas shit form. Eveything went in. What happened to him ? You say that there are 45000 people singing songs about them, they should be arsed, but obviously Reina doesn´t agree with you. Or how do you see the situation ? Was it Kennys fault that he didn´t trust Brad when it became obvious Reina was not his usual self ? Brad did well last season, but he was the third goalie. That brasilian guy wasn´t that good, so I kind of understand sticking with Reina. Unfortunately it didn´t work out too well and I think Reina already had something else in his mind. We have seen the best of him, I´m afraid.

 

Are you calling him a massive cunt?

[zigackly]

There's been nothing sudden about Reina's decline. His saves to shots ratio has been dropping steadily for nearly three years.

[TheHowieLama]

Was it Kennys fault that he didn´t trust Brad when it became obvious Reina was not his usual self ? .

 

Erm, yeah. Along with his continued use of others who were cack that is one thing there is no denying.

[fin-bat]

Are you calling him a massive cunt?

 

Well, if it earns me some credibility points on this board, then yes, I can call him a cunt :P

[KopOut]

Are you really putting Suarez not playing well last season as a defence for Kenny? Fuck me you're not half clutching at straws there.

Where would we be this season if Reina hadn't been fucking around for the first half dozen games?

Or if Suarez had gotten half the penalty decisions he should've?

 

Well, I'd argue that the eight match ban was a big part of it too. Don't forget, prior to Suarez, all our eggs were in the Torres basket, and when he wasn't playing well, or was injured, we really suffered with results.

 

I don't really want to include Carroll in this because he was bought injured, and nobody would ever argue he wasn't well overpriced, however, at about 10-12 million he'd have been a good support striker, IF he'd have been fit and blended in quickly - unfortunately, like Rafa and Aquilani, we have this real knack as a club for buying injured players!

[Red22]

I think it's a bit sad how we leap to the logical extreme so often on the FF, of every argument which is presented for debate, so that any criticism of Rodgers for instance, becomes a judgement that he is not the right man for the job, and any defence of Dalglish, a man who deserves a bit of understanding and leeway if anyone associated with the club ever did, becomes an agenda against Rodgers.

 

It is possible to hold and even discuss opinions in between the most extreme ones, and even to acknowledge the validity in points of view which differ from our own.

 

Hence I can believe that Rodgers has done a naive and fumbling job so far, and that much of the criticism of Dalglish has been over the top and even in some cases hypocritical, whilst still hoping Rodgers can improve, and is given time and backing to realise his vision.

 

Well said - like the sig too. Don't agree with you on Dalglish though. There wasn't a peep out of him when G&H were on the verge of bankrupting the club. He then conducts a search and decides that he's the best man for the job! Wastes about £80m in the transfer market which will put the Americans off investing again. Then rides off into the sunset with a big payoff.

 

May be cynical but maybe he looked at his buddy Hansen and the wedge he was on at the BBC and thought he deserved better.

[KopOut]

surely giving game time to the likes of Sterling, Suso, Coates,Shelvey, Wisdom and all the other lads coming through in the Europa games as well as buying players like Allen is laying down better foundations than playing overpriced shit all the time

 

Kenny deserves respect of course and the first 6 months, plus the Carling Cup win were great, but last season was a complete disaster in almost every way possible aside from the Cups

 

this season, the results are still shit but we're bringing through some top young players and they can take us a long way in the future, something that would never have happened persisting with the players from last year

 

Once again, this is conjecture, and you cannot fathom a three year plan out of the first season.

 

I think, honestly, Code is probably similar to me, in that given the choice of rebuilding over three or more seasons with Dalglish or Rodgers, he'd choose Dalglish. Many fans feel the same - the owners had other ideas and it always hurts to see huge decisions made when you're gut feeling is that they are wrong.

 

Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and obviously our fan base is split, and the jury is out on BR. It's nothing personal; it's what BR represents more than anything. The fear, is that he is a move towards permanent mediocrity; another panic decision like Commolli's spending spree.

 

For me, this is about the owners because, regardless of what they say about a plan for the future and BR getting all the time he needs and not being under any pressure, I don't trust them to keep their word - and after BR it could be Martinez, or Joe Bloggs or any fucker who's brief is to make money and shut up - especially since the Red Sox are losing money hand over fist.

[ZonkoVille77]

Well said - like the sig too. Don't agree with you on Dalglish though. There wasn't a peep out of him when G&H were on the verge of bankrupting the club. He then conducts a search and decides that he's the best man for the job! Wastes about £80m in the transfer market which will put the Americans off investing again. Then rides off into the sunset with a big payoff.

 

May be cynical but maybe he looked at his buddy Hansen and the wedge he was on at the BBC and thought he deserved better.

 

I'd love you to put that to the great man himself. And I'd hope he'd roundhouse your goofy teeth out.

Prick.

[ZonkoVille77]

Once again, this is conjecture, and you cannot fathom a three year plan out of the first season.

 

I think, honestly, Code is probably similar to me, in that given the choice of rebuilding over three or more seasons with Dalglish or Rodgers, he'd choose Dalglish. Many fans feel the same - the owners had other ideas and it always hurts to see huge decisions made when you're gut feeling is that they are wrong.

 

Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and obviously our fan base is split, and the jury is out on BR. It's nothing personal; it's what BR represents more than anything. The fear, is that he is a move towards permanent mediocrity; another panic decision like Commolli's spending spree.

 

For me, this is about the owners because, regardless of what they say about a plan for the future and BR getting all the time he needs and not being under any pressure, I don't trust them to keep their word - and after BR it could be Martinez, or Joe Bloggs or any fucker who's brief is to make money and shut up - especially since the Red Sox are losing money hand over fist.

 

Totally agree. I know we are all blind when it comes to the King but he should have had a real chance.

Sadly he didn't and we all need to get the fuck over it.

[Red22]

I'd love you to put that to the great man himself. And I'd hope he'd roundhouse your goofy teeth out.

Prick.

 

Fair enough. Two questions then:

 

- why did he demand a three year contract instead of the two the Americans were offering him unless he was looking out for himself?

 

- why did he not give his payoff to charity or back to the club as some were trying to have us believe at the time?

 

He was a great player, probably the best we've ever had. But he fucked us over royally. Take off the 'KK is a saint' glasses and just accept that, like most of the rest of the human race, he was looking after number one.

[silverlining]

Once again, this is conjecture, and you cannot fathom a three year plan out of the first season.

 

I think, honestly, Code is probably similar to me, in that given the choice of rebuilding over three or more seasons with Dalglish or Rodgers, he'd choose Dalglish. Many fans feel the same - the owners had other ideas and it always hurts to see huge decisions made when you're gut feeling is that they are wrong.

 

Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and obviously our fan base is split, and the jury is out on BR. It's nothing personal; it's what BR represents more than anything. The fear, is that he is a move towards permanent mediocrity; another panic decision like Commolli's spending spree.

 

For me, this is about the owners because, regardless of what they say about a plan for the future and BR getting all the time he needs and not being under any pressure, I don't trust them to keep their word - and after BR it could be Martinez, or Joe Bloggs or any fucker who's brief is to make money and shut up - especially since the Red Sox are losing money hand over fist.

 

But it wasn't a surprise. They were backed into a corner with Kenny as he was never their choice really. He was *our* choice. The tension and uncertainty was there all along.

[KopOut]

2.Any plan needs strong foundations. No reasonable fan could argue that the money on Carroll, Downing, Henderson and Adam was squandered. “The plan” was broken from the start. You claim “we were not broken”, the second half of last season saw our worst run for half a century, our home record for the whole season was similarly wretched and £100m had pretty much gone up in smoke. How broken do you need?

 

The amount of money is what people generally are flabbergasted by; it wasn't really £100m gone up in smoke. the income from Torres covered Carroll and Downing (possibly even Adam-I thought Downing was less than £15 million). They all started well (except Carroll, injured) and lets not forget who missed the penalty in the first home game of the season, consigning us to a draw when three points were on the cards.

I dont want to get into a blow by blow account of the season again, but to say we didn't have bad luck - including some sort of conspiracy against Suarez - would be wrong.

 

I agree with Code on this: the critical points to the season, were the Lucas injury (once again showing exactly just how thin our squad really was) and the Suarez ban.

 

A club like us should be spending whatever it takes to get the job done. Dalglish was not out of line, in using what was probably a net spend of about £30 million.

[silverlining]

The amount of money is what people generally are flabbergasted by; it wasn't really £100m gone up in smoke. the income from Torres covered Carroll and Downing (possibly even Adam-I thought Downing was less than £15 million). They all started well (except Carroll, injured) and lets not forget who missed the penalty in the first home game of the season, consigning us to a draw when three points were on the cards.

I dont want to get into a blow by blow account of the season again, but to say we didn't have bad luck - including some sort of conspiracy against Suarez - would be wrong.

 

I agree with Code on this: the critical points to the season, were the Lucas injury (once again showing exactly just how thin our squad really was) and the Suarez ban.

 

A club like us should be spending whatever it takes to get the job done. Dalglish was not out of line, in using what was probably a net spend of about £30 million.

 

Fucking bollocks. Nobody thought the money we spent - REAL MONEY! THAT WE REALLY DID SPEND! - was spent wisely. NOBODY

 

The amounts we agreed to pay for Carroll, Henderson and Downing made us a laughing stock and ultimately cost Commoli and Dalglish their jobs

[J-V]

Fucking bollocks. Nobody thought the money we spent - REAL MONEY! THAT WE REALLY DID SPEND! - was spent wisely. NOBODY

 

The amounts we agreed to pay for Carroll, Henderson and Downing made us a laughing stock and ultimately cost Commoli and Dalglish their jobs

 

You should know by now Dalglish can do no wrong. This despite the fact even Stevie Wonder could see Carroll, Downing, Henderson were fucking shit before we signed them.

[zigackly]

Well said - like the sig too. Don't agree with you on Dalglish though. There wasn't a peep out of him when G&H were on the verge of bankrupting the club. He then conducts a search and decides that he's the best man for the job! Wastes about £80m in the transfer market which will put the Americans off investing again. Then rides off into the sunset with a big payoff.

 

May be cynical but maybe he looked at his buddy Hansen and the wedge he was on at the BBC and thought he deserved better.

 

[dirk grout]

Fair enough. Two questions then:

 

- why did he demand a three year contract instead of the two the Americans were offering him unless he was looking out for himself?

 

- why did he not give his payoff to charity or back to the club as some were trying to have us believe at the time?

 

He was a great player, probably the best we've ever had. But he fucked us over royally. Take off the 'KK is a saint' glasses and just accept that, like most of the rest of the human race, he was looking after number one.

 

YOU ARE A MASSIVE SPASTIC!

[xerxes]

The amount of money is what people generally are flabbergasted by; it wasn't really £100m gone up in smoke. the income from Torres

 

Let me stop you there. It WAS £100m+. The fact that half of that was provided by the Torres sale is irrelevant. Kenny spent the cash, fact.

 

A manager's job is to get value for what he spends, not squander it because it is cash from proceeds. That you use that as an argument is a terrible indictment of KK.

[Il Fenomeno]

Fair enough. Two questions then:

 

- why did he demand a three year contract instead of the two the Americans were offering him unless he was looking out for himself?

 

- why did he not give his payoff to charity or back to the club as some were trying to have us believe at the time?

 

He was a great player, probably the best we've ever had. But he fucked us over royally. Take off the 'KK is a saint' glasses and just accept that, like most of the rest of the human race, he was looking after number one.

 

Because he thought his 'vision' for the club would take more than two seasons to get the club where he thought it should be?

 

Because he was entitled to the pay off! The question shouldn't be why Dalglish didn't give his payoff to X, Y or Z. It should be why the owners gave him a 3 year contract if they didn't have full faith in his abilities and didn't really want him in the first place and were going to look for the first excuse to sack him!