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RB Leipzig 0 Liverpool 2 (Feb 16 2021)

     

     
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    Dave Usher

How refreshing was that? All the shit we’ve been fighting through these last few weeks just felt like it could be put to one side as the Champions League returned. I knew we’d win this game. I’m not being wise after the event as I posted on the forum the day before that we’d win. I’d have been shocked if we hadn’t.

 

Why? A couple of reasons. Firstly, that cabal of bent refs who have been undermining us at every turn since the season began would have no influence on this game. It’s a level playing field and on a level playing field there are very few opponents that worry me. Second in the Bundesliga or not, Leipzig aren’t on that list.

 

Secondly, I’ve been talking for a few weeks about 'rock bottom' and whether I felt we’d reached it or not. I didn’t think it was Burnley and that was proven to be right. I hoped it might have been Old Trafford in the cup and briefly it looked as though that was the case as we won our next two games. It was a false dawn though. I knew it wasn’t Brighton because we had Man City and Leicester next. I feared the worst for both of those games and ‘the worst’ is what we got, especially at Leicester. 

 

Not ‘worst’ as in performance, but more about how that whole thing went down. We played well until the officials got involved. The finish to that game was just brutal and a shock to everyone’s systems, especially the players. And that’s why I felt that Leicester was rock bottom and that the road back would start against Leipzig.

 

I’m not ready to declare all of our problems are over with, not least because this weekend we’re back in the hands of Premier League officials. Everton don’t scare me one little bit. There isn’t even 1% of me that’s worried about Everton. I have about a 75% concern about the officiating though and that's why it's hard to ever be confident about winning league games now. A lot of it is out of our control.

 

In the Champions League I don’t have that fear. Not because the officials are flawless and get everything right. They make mistakes and we’ve had some terrible refs in Europe. The difference is that any mistakes they make are honest mistakes. They aren’t out to get us. It’s a level playing field and that’s all I ask for. After that, may the best team win. Or the luckiest, whatever.

 

If this was a Premier League game we’d have lost. Performance wise it wasn’t that much different to Leicester. We played some good stuff and were clearly the better side in both games. But there were two big factors in why we lost one and won the other. Officiating and luck.

 

I can’t say this for certain as there’s no way of knowing for sure, but if Premier League refs had been in charge of this game it would have been a different outcome. I saw a comment on Twitter that absolutely nailed it. It was something like “the best thing about playing in Europe is that when Sadio and Mo are fouled we get free-kicks”. Yep. And those little things make a massive difference to games. Refs don’t always stiff you by giving penalties and red cards. Often it’s death by a thousand cuts.

 

Sadio got fouled early in this game and the ref not only booked the lad who committed the foul, he also pulled out a yellow card for his mate who protested about it. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. So THIS is what proper referees do. It’s been so long that I’d forgotten.

 

There was an incident in the second half that jumped out at me too. One of their forwards was running into the box and went around Kabak. Trent was running in to cover and got himself into a great position to block off the run and shepherd the ball out of play. “In the Premier League they’d have given a penalty for that” I thought. Not because it was a foul, but because an opposition player went down in the box and that’s all the excuse they need.

 

And of course, had a penalty been awarded we’d then have to listen to baked bean head Shearer saying “well there is some contact and we’ve seen them given”. And fuck all would be said about the injustice of it because “some you get, some you don’t but they even themselves out”.

 

We were arguably on the wrong end of a massive decision in this game but I don’t have any complaint about it at all, even if I don’t believe the goal should have been ruled out. Sadio probably got to that ball a fraction before it was fully over the line. The still shot of it seemed to suggest it’s an inch or two from going out, but if you’re the linesman there then that ball is out as you have to flag. There’s no way you can really come to any other conclusion as to the naked eye it’s over the line.

 

So no problem with that. Could VAR have over-ruled? Maybe, but it’s so close and in the CL they only really tend to get involved when it’s a clear error. There’s no real definitive angle to show categorically that the linesman was wrong. Besides, on throw ins and goal kicks / corners they never use the ‘whole of the ball has to be over the line’ thing that they do with goal-line decisions. If most of the ball is out then they nearly always rule that it’s out, and morally that’s how it should be.

 

That ‘whole of the ball must be over’ is one of the first things I’d change if I could. I hate it. It's just wrong. To me, once more than half of the ball is over then that’s enough. If you’re rolling a ball over the edge of a cliff, as soon as 51% of it goes over the edge that’s it, it’s gone. Why? Because it’s over and gravity proves it. That’s what it should be on goal-line decisions, not this utter fucking farce we have when less than 1cm of a ball is touching the line so it’s classed as not a goal.

 

So yeah, even if technically Firmino’s goal may have been legit, that’s an honest ‘mistake’ (if you can even call it that) by the lino and I wouldn’t expect VAR to intervene when there isn’t a conclusive shot to prove an officiating error.

 

Anyway, enough about refs. The second thing that was different to our recent Premier League games was just plain old 'rub of the green'. We deserved to win the game because we played the better football and created more chances. That’s been the case for most of the games we’ve failed to win though. Why didn't we win? Because we just can’t seem to catch a break domestically.

 

The change of competition brought a change of luck. Both of our goals came from calamitous errors from the opposition. This kind of thing hasn’t happened for us much in the league. Average opposition players perform flawlessly against us and then the next week I’ll see them dropping a bollock against someone else *glares at Nick Pope*.

 

We had some luck at the other end too. Leipzig had three great chances to score and maybe another three half decent opportunities. They hit the post with one, Alisson made a great save with another and the third one - with the last kick of the game - went wide. On another day, one, two or even three of those go in and we don’t win the game. I’m not saying we were lucky to win this, more that it highlights how unlucky we’ve been at other times.

 

No matter how good you are you still need the rub of the green sometimes. Last season we had it but this year it feels like the only luck we’ve had has been bad. The change of competition brought a change of fortune and I dunno, it just felt more enjoyable watching this game. There wasn’t the same tension that there has been in league games. I think the players felt like that too. It looked like it. They played with less of a burden on them.

 

It helps that Leipzig are a front foot team and wanted to have a go at us. We don’t often get that these days. Everyone seems to follow the same ‘everyone behind the ball and wait for a mistake or gift from the officials’ strategy. I don’t blame them because it’s proved to be successful one.

 

Europe isn’t like that though. I’ve said this before but it’s worth repeating. Virtually everyone you face in Europe is used to having things their own way domestically and therefore they aren’t well drilled in playing defensively because they rarely need to do it. So generally you don’t come up against shithouse tactics, even against the lesser sides. You play against the Slovenian Champions and they’ve probably just won their last domestic game 5-0 and are used to dominating games and attacking. 

 

So Leipzig are not going to park the bus against us. Why would they? Teams play to their strengths. They’re currently the second best team in Germany so there’s no inferiority complex there. And them playing the way they did played right into our hands. We were able to press them high and win it back early which released the front three into favourable situations. We looked more like us, because we weren’t having to pass the ball around sideways and backwards for five minutes looking for gaps that aren’t there.

 

Sadio and Mo were a constant threat in behind because there were gaps and because we were winning the ball quickly enough that Leipzig couldn’t get back and fill the gaps in time. They kept trying to play out from the back and we kept nicking it in midfield and releasing the forwards early.

 

I thought we played better in the first half than we did in the second, even though both goals came after the break. Some of our stuff in the first half was great. The passing into the forwards, specifically from Trent, was quality. Thiago was very good with some of his first time passing too, and the only negative from that half was that we didn’t score.

 

We could have. There were chances. Ex Red Peter Gulacsi did well in goal for them. He made a brilliant save to deny Mo when he raced onto a gorgeous ball by Trent. Gulacsi stood up really well and blocked the shot with his shoulder. Mo did everything right there but it was just good goalkeeping.

 

Firmino then shot disappointingly wide after more great play by Trent. Sadio then headed over following some lovely play by Trent, Mo and Bobby in the build up.

 

’Spider’ Gulacsi (that was his nickname when he was here, no idea why) was beaten by a 40 yard chip by Robbo though and was fortunate to see the ball graze the top of the bar. He ended up in a heap in his own net and it’s incredible he didn’t do himself an injury there as it looked horrendous.

 

Leipzig came out after the break with more purpose about them and I thought they looked quite sharp until they shot themselves in the foot. The midfielder played a blind pass towards his centre back and it went behind him. Salah had anticipated it and was already racing onto it before the defender knew what was happening. He never looked like missing that did he? Total confidence and control. Clinical.

 

Soon after it was 2-0. Jones lofted a ball over the right sided centre back’s head for Sadio to chase. The defender should have dealt with it but he got himself into a terrible mess as he was turned around and Mané was in the clear. I wasn’t as confident in him finishing as I had been with Mo, simply because he’s not been in a great run. This is the Champions League though and what has been happening domestically isn’t a factor.

 

Sadio’s goal record in CL knockout games is sensational and this was another cool finish to add to that collection. Perhaps if we’d pushed for it we could have got a third and killed the tie completely, but the focus seemed to be on seeing the game out and not doing anything silly. Or it might just have been that Ox and Shaw killed any momentum we had.

 

Shaq barely touched the ball and every time Ox did it went straight to the opposition. He’s given us absolutely nothing this season. It’s tough because he needs games to get into some kind of form but we can’t give him them because he’s been mostly useless.

 

You have to say though, if he can’t get a game in midfield with Fabinho and Hendo out of the picture and playing at the back, Keita out of the picture through never being fit and with Milner also out injured, there’s really nothing down for him is there? Great lad, like him a lot, but he’s almost become a spare part now. A shame. We’ll never know how his career would have gone if he hadn’t got that horrific injury against Roma when he was in the form of his life.

 

That chance they missed at the end would have put a completely different complexion on the second leg as not only would it have halved the deficit but emotionally it would have been a huge swing too. As it is, they’ve got a mountain to climb and unless we shit the bed completely we should be fine.

 

It was a little worrying how they got in though. Hendo has been brilliant at centre back but they got in off the back of him twice and on a third occasion he was booked for pulling the lad back. That’s a bit of a concern but it’s to be expected. His first movement is often forward as he’s a midfield player. A natural defender’s first movement will often be to go the other way to protect himself from the run in behind.

 

That chance at the end was partly Hendo letting him run in behind him but also Kabak being a couple of yards deeper and playing him onside. That’s going to happen though isn’t it? You’ve got a midfielder filling in and a new boy learning to play in a different system with different players. It’s not going to be perfect.

 

There’s definitely an argument to be had for introducing Davies as soon as possible now alongside Kabak and getting Hendo back in the middle. I don’t think that will happen, but maybe when Fabinho is back we’ll see either him or Hendo in midfield again.

 

Star man is Trent but I thought Curtis was class too. Very mature performance from him. Kabak deserves a shout too. He didn’t do anything exceptional but he looked solid and secure. I think we have to remember here that he’s actually still a kid. We’re hoping / expecting him to slot in and play like a big money signing and have an immediate impact, but he’s 20 years old and normally someone of that age would not be playing centre back at a top club. 

 

He’s going to make mistakes and get caught out now and again because that’s what happens with young defenders. It’s part of the learning curve and if it happens between now and May it shouldn’t really be used to judge him negatively. If he’s doing that when he’s 25 then that’s a different matter. He’s only a few months older than Rhys Williams, but obviously he has much greater experience. I’m just saying, he’s still a kid so let’s remember that.

 

 

Team: Alisson; Alexander-Arnold, Kabak, Henderson, Robertson; Wijnaldum, Thiago (Oxlade-Chamberlain), Jones; Salah (N Williams), Firmino (Shaqiri), Mané:


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I tweeted about 30 minutes in how much better champions league refs are than premier league refs.There was 2 or 3 good tackles by us that would definitely be given as fouls in the prem.The difference in the standard is staggering.

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Nice Davey. For man of the match, Trent is a very decent shout, but for me, Curtis was slightly better. Unfortunately, neither gets the nod.

 

MOM - The ref. Almost totally flawless. Solid, reliable, dilligent and honest. Class. The difference was night and day.

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Was thinking the same thing with regards to Trent's great block in our box in the second half. If that was in the PL it wouldn't have surprised me at all if a pen was given. 

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Bang on the money Dave again , I said the same about the " penalty " in the premier league that's definitely given against us , the referee was a breath of fresh air imo compared to the shite the Premier league muster he reffed it entirely on what he saw and not on reputation I can take that every day of the week .

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That game suited us because Leipzig play at a high tempo. You had moments throughout the whole game, but especially in the first half where the pressing was so effective on both sides and the turnovers of possession were so quick and frequent, and we thrive on those moments. That was a high level game by the way. Leipzig ran 116km and we ran 114km. That is good tempo. In comparison, PSG ran 105 and Barca ran 103, or something like that, in the other game.

 

To be honest, you could only be encouraged by the game, but in all likelihood very few other game or opponent we'll play this season will ressemble this one, so what you can take from it, I don't really know.

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Totally agree Dave. Combined with decent reffing, we just havent had any luck except bad as you say. We punished their mistakes whereas PL teams have been punishing us for our and ref's horrendous decisions!

 

Last night the ref and VAR used common sense, He even gave us a free kick when he didnt see the foul. Some may complain about that and certainly, no PL ref would have given it. I think they said on commentary he was reffing his first CL game?

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Agreed re: Davies, also agreed that probably won’t happen yet. We’ve turned a corner.....If we beat the Blueshite - and I suspect we’ll turn up - we nullify their game in hand by being 6 pnts ahead of them. Come in you Redmen.

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Interesting and encouraging game, not too much difference in the way we've been playing for most of this year, bar a couple. If things had gone as they have in the league we'd have probably lost that 2-0. It's a funny old game.

 

I don't think I've seen Alisson have so much of the ball to feet, it was like they were doing it on purpose to rebuild his confidence.

 

Glad you had something positive to write about finally, you were heading into pit of despair!

 

 

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I can’t say this for certain as there’s no way of knowing for sure, but if Premier League refs had been in charge of this game it would have been a different outcome. I saw a comment on Twitter that absolutely nailed it. It was something like “the best thing about playing in Europe is that when Sadio and Mo are fouled we get free-kicks”. Yep. And those little things make a massive difference to games. Refs don’t always stiff you by giving penalties and red cards. Often it’s death by a thousand cuts.

 

Dave - you're so right about the death by a thousand cuts.

It all goes back to one of your observations about how the match stats don't add up. We have 60% possession (say) over the whole game but the foul stats are something like 17 against us and only 11 fouls by the team playing with its back to the big bus in their goalmouth. We seem to have a foul called against us every time we lose the ball. This helps break up momentum, frustrate Klopp and the players and also waste time (looks at Burnley). 

When you throw in the implausible lines that VAR manages to draw - for us it's clearly a case of "joining up the dots" to get the pre-ordained result.

We need to shoot more from outside or edge of the box - VAR can't touch those goals.

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21 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Totally agree Dave. Combined with decent reffing, we just havent had any luck except bad as you say. We punished their mistakes whereas PL teams have been punishing us for our and ref's horrendous decisions!

 

Last night the ref and VAR used common sense, He even gave us a free kick when he didnt see the foul. Some may complain about that and certainly, no PL ref would have given it. I think they said on commentary he was reffing his first CL game?

Oh that free-kick, I'd forgotten about that! Mo just fell over his own feet with no-one anywhere near him. Refs back was turned, Hendo screamed for a free-kick and he blew the whistle!

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I didn't really celebrate the first goal as I assumed there would be some VAR involvement, it felt weird when there wasn't one. Curtis Jones was excellent especially in the first half he was gliding around the pitch.

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19 hours ago, dave u said:

Oh that free-kick, I'd forgotten about that! Mo just fell over his own feet with no-one anywhere near him. Refs back was turned, Hendo screamed for a free-kick and he blew the whistle!

 

Need a gif of this as it was so ridiculous. 

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