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Liverpool 2 West Ham United 1 (Oct 31 2020)

     

     
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    Dave Usher

I could just post last weekend’s report and change a few minor details, because this was eerily similar. We fell behind, we equalised shortly before half time (in the same minute, I believe), we had a goal disallowed by VAR and then we scored the winner soon after.

 

It’s a great win. Not one that any of us will be reminiscing about (unless you’re Nat Phillips, obviously) but despite that, it feels like a big one to me. They all are I suppose, but this feels like it was really important. This whole week has been. It’s ben a big test and we’ve passed it.

 

We lost Virg and all eyes were on how we’d cope. It’s been a bit of a struggle at times but the lads have dug in and won three games in a week. And guess what, we’re back to the top of the league again. Not bad considering some of the mad shit we’ve had happen.

 

West Ham have been in good form but the loss of Antonio hurt them even more than us not having Virg. West Ham lost 75% of their goal threat with him being out. It’s not just the goals he scores, it’s the threat he provides when he’s on the pitch. They’re as close to being a one man team as there is in the league (along with Palace) so this was massive for them. Basically, they can’t replace what he brings and it feels like the first break we’ve had all season that he was missing.

 

In Antonio’s place was Haller, a player who started his West Ham career well but has struggled since. Still, he was being marked by a lad making his Premier League debut, so it’s only natural that we’d have some concerns and West Ham might fancy their chances.

 

As it turned out, the Hammers got absolutely no change whatsoever out of big Nat Phillips. He was tremendous and by the end of the first half Haller had more or less given up. Phillips just battered him into submission by winning header after header until eventually Haller just stopped challenging for them.

 

Surprisingly, the weak link was alongside Phillips where Gomez made an error that allowed Fornals to give the visitors the lead.

 

Let’s be fair here though. The goal wasn’t completely down to Gomez as it was a bad goal all around in terms of positioning and being alert. We allowed them to get a cross in too easily and there was no-one anywhere near Fornals when the ball dropped to him.

 

The header from Joe was shite though. I don’t know why he didn’t just head it back where it came from instead of heading it to the edge of our own box. Get it away from danger. That’s just basic stuff.

 

That one error probably puts an overly negative slant on what was otherwise a decent enough performance from him. We actually defended well throughout the game although West Ha had two or three decent chances. I think we often read too much into things like that though. 

 

How often do you go through a game against Premier League opposition where you prevent them from creating ANY chances? Hardly ever happens, and I don’t care how good you are. You’re always going to give up two or three chances a game even when you defend well.

 

We occasionally look a little vulnerable but in general terms we’re defending pretty well most games. It’s not been perfect by any means but no-one is keeping clean sheets in lockdown footy. 

 

It’s quite funny really. That Villa debacle means that we’ve got the worst defensive record in the league (even worse than fucking FULHAM!!!), yet guess what? We’re still top. Funny old game.

 

So yeah, we went behind and the first half was a bit of a grind. We had a lot of the ball but couldn’t really get in behind. It was partly due to us not moving it quickly enough and partly because it’s really hard playing against a well organised side with a back five and four in midfield. There’s hardly any space in the final third.

 

The last thing you want to do is fall behind to a team like that as it just makes them sit in all the more as they have something to protect. We found it hard going but I no longer worry too much in these situations because the lads generally find a way in the end. They did it last week in similar circumstances and they did it once more here.

 

The penalty sort of came out of nowhere but I did feel like we were gradually turning the screw on them the longer the half went. It’s not like we were creating loads but it felt like there was more urgency and we were pushing them further and further back.

 

I honestly can’t believe there’s been so much debate about the penalty. I can only assume it’s because it was Mo (there’s always a big fucking debate any time he gets a pen and fuck all is said on the countless occasions he doesn’t get ones he should), but there’s been so much nonsense spouted about this from people who ought to know better.

 

I expect Moyes to complain about it because he’s never seen a decision go against him that he didn’t dispute. He’s Everton to his rotten little dour miserable fucking wrinkled core. So when he says it’s not a penalty I just laugh. Classic Moyes.

 

It pains me when Souness agrees with him though. As a rule, Souey is one of the better pundits and is far less prone to talking bollocks than certain others, such as Danny Murphy for example, who I’ll get to in a minute.

 

It’s an absolute, stonewall, 100% foul and whether Salah fell ‘naturally’ or not doesn’t come into it. Yes, Salah could have stayed on his feet. Yes, he threw himself to the floor to draw attention to the foul. Yes, he made a meal of it. All of this can be true and it is still a fucking penalty.

 

Nothing about what Salah did changes the fact that he got his body between the defender and the ball and that the defender recklessly had a swing and booted him on the foot. I mean shit, the lad himself even apologised for his mistake on Twitter afterwards. He didn’t dispute it at the time either, because he knew.

 

I’ve made this point before but why should the attacker stay up in that situation? He was impeded by the foul, albeit only minimally in this instance. But that kick on the foot causes him to check his stride if he stays up, so why should he allow the defender to gain that kind of advantage? None of the teams we play against play that way, so why would we do it?

 

I don’t want my forwards staying on their feet when they’ve been fouled and I’d bollock them if they did. Why should we play by a set of rules that literally no-one else does? You get nothing for being honest on the pitch. That’s just a stone cold fact. If you stay on your feet it just allows the ref to ignore it. It takes a brave referee to give a penalty when the attacker stays on his feet.

 

And Danny fucking Murphy. Jesus Christ. The hypocrisy. What he said about Salah was the polar opposite of what he said about Harry Kane in a similar situation not so long ago. He’s gone from “everybody does it, it’s the way the game is” to “you don’t want to see that in the game”. 

 

I hate this because I don’t want to not like Danny. I’ve always liked him but he just makes it really hard these days doesn’t he?

 

Here’s the thing with Murphy. I’ve heard him on the radio loads and when he’s talking about situations in his own career he provides some genuinely interesting and valuable insight. I enjoy listening to him when he’s giving that kind of insight.

 

His problem is when he’s commenting on something he’s seen and he has to break it down. He’s nearly always completely wrong. It’s almost impressive just how consistently wrong he is. You’d think he’d be right occasionally just on the law of averages, but no.

 

If Murphy says it’s a red card, you know it’s not. If he says it’s not a pen, you know it is. If he says offside, it’s going to be on. He’s so fucking useless at this shit he could be in a VAR room and none of us would know the difference.

 

Ah yes, VAR. It fucked us again. I didn’t celebrate the goal because I was sure Sadio had fouled the keeper. When I saw the replays I was less sure he had but it was a 50-50 call and therefore I knew it would go against us, because it usually does. 

 

As it turns out, he doesn’t technically foul the keeper as he slides underneath him, but you can definitely argue that the keeper was impeded by the challenge and if the goal had been ruled out for that I could have understood it even if I’d probably feel a little aggrieved.

 

Thing is, it was disallowed for a foul on the defender though, which I don’t get at all. I watched the replay five or six times and not once did I think there was a foul on the defender. Maybe I was too fixated on looking at the challenge on the keeper that I missed something, so I’ve gone back and looked again and I still don’t see it. There is no foul on the defender. Not even close.

 

In fact, the only reason Mané ends up going in on the keeper is because Ogbonna leans into him and moves him away from the path of the ball. Not illegally, I should add, it’s just good defending, but I don’t see how Mané can be penalised for a non-existent foul on a defender who was leaning into him.

 

As soon as VAR told Kevin Friend to have a look it was obvious what was going to happen. I thought Friend had a good game and if he’d blown the whistle for a foul on the keeper I don’t think anyone could blame him. At full speed on first viewing it looked a clear foul. It sticks in the throat that it was disallowed for something that didn’t actually happen though.

 

Incidentally, we had another penalty shout in the first half when Cresswell blocked off Mané, but that was just good defending for me. Never a pen so no complaints there. As I say, Friend had a pretty good game I thought.

 

We’re getting used to these VAR knockbacks now though and the players seem to be able to shrug them off. They did it last week and we got the winner from Jota soon after, and history related itself again.

 

Jota was fucking brilliant when he came on. So too was Big Shaq. That disallowed goal came after great work by both of them, and it was those two that combined to win it soon after. The ball from Shaq was perfect and Jota finished it confidently. It’s a lovely goal.

 

Those two had replaced Jones and Firmino to give us a bit of a kick start. Once again, I thought Curtis played within himself and seems to be more concerned with playing responsibly and with maturity than he is about expressing himself and making things happen. 

 

The one time he did try something it was a terrible decision to shoot from 25 yards while off balance and with his weak foot when there was a simple pass on to slide Mané though. Dreadful that. Otherwise he was neat, tidy, diligent and never gave the ball away.

 

I understand why he’s reigning himself in and long term it’s probably a good thing. There’s a happy medium to be had though as currently he isn’t offering any real threat or creativity when he plays. Until recently any time he was on the pitch he’d be in the final third trying things, getting shots away, being positive. The last few games though he’s been too safe.

 

He can do the things Shaq has been doing but until he starts doing them again Shaq should be ahead of him in the pecking order. Not that I have any problem with Jones getting chances, I’m all for it in fact, but he maybe needs to be coming off the bench rather than starting though at the moment.

 

As for Jota, he’s fucking brilliant. I love him. He fits this team like an arse in a bucket and he hasn’t needed any settling in period. We’re talking Salah and Van Dijk levels of instant production. We don’t usually see that as it normally takes time.

 

The impact he made in this game was huge. He scored, he had one disallowed, and he basically ran West Ham ragged. He’s so direct and positive that he brought a dimension to our play that just wasn’t there until he came on.

 

He has to be starting from now on. There isn’t a case to keep Bobby in there any more. Not one good reason. It’s not just the lack of goals and assists, it’s everything. Generally most of us don’t judge Bobby solely on those things. His place in the side was always assured because he made everyone else around him better.

 

His unselfish play, clever movement and relentless pressure was a huge part of what made us so great. Is any of that even the case currently? He’s a passenger most weeks. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s poor form or maybe it’s just that the opposition have learned how to nullify him. I’m not clever enough to suss that out.

 

What I do know is that Salah and Mané aren’t better with him on the pitch anymore. They look just fine without him and probably look even more dangerous with Jota. So if Bobby isn’t bringing out the best in those around him and he’s doing pretty much fuck all himself, what reason is there to keep him in the team? Nostalgia?

 

It seems like a bit of a crutch now to say he should be playing because he’s integral to our style. Maybe that style has been found out and needs tweaking, or maybe Bobby is just woefully out of form. Either way, we look miles better with Jota playing so next week at City I’d love to see Mo through the middle using his pace against that dodgy backline, and Jota and Mané either side of him.

 

I doubt it will happen. We’ll see Bobby starting again because of his work off the ball and his experience of playing against City, and no doubt he’ll be hooked after 65 minutes as seems to be the case every week now.

 

In the meantime we have Atalanta away. Tough game and it’s one we could afford to drop points in really. It would be great if we didn’t but I’m not sure we can keep churning out win after win every three days. If something needs to give I’d rather it be in midweek than next weekend.

 

Presumably Rhys Williams will play in Italy as Phillips is ineligible. I wouldn’t want to see either of them play at the Etihad so hopefully Matip will finally declare himself fit for that one. He’s been out a long time for what was initially meant to be a minor muscle problem.

 

If we had to call on Phillips I’d have some concerns because City present an entirely different challenge to a David Moyes team. It’s similar to how I felt about Big Soto when he was here. There were some games when you’d want him in there because he’ll win his headers, be aggressive and stand up to the physical battles. 

 

Where you didn’t want him was on the back foot trying to deal with fleet footed, tricky forwards that would twist and turn him in the box. That’s how I feel about Phillips. We know he can deal with the alehouse teams and big physical strikers, but how would he cope when isolated one v one against Sterling or Mahrez? 

 

Hopefully we don’t have to find out but I tell you something, I’d happily see him starting games against half of the teams in this league. He brings us something that we don’t have without Van Dijk or Matip. 

 

If he’d played last week then McBurnie wouldn’t have been having his own way with every ball in the air. Phillips loves those duels and he seemed to get his head on everything, including the faces of any opponent who got in the way.

 

What I like most about him is that he knows his strengths and weaknesses and he just played his own game. He kept it simple in possession and just did the basics. And the way he was cleaning everything out attacking those long goal kicks was just great. There was one just before half time that had me cheering. He just went up and smashed through everyone and headed it back 30 yards upfield. Loved that.

 

He’s the star man by some distance. I was worried that Carra had jinxed him when he gave him man of the match with a few minutes left to play and West Ham going full alehouse, but it went the other way as he actually became even more impressive in the closing stages and was clearing everything that came into the box. The towering header to clear a corner kick right at the end was fucking boss and I’m just really pleased for him.

 

Imagine how he must be feeling today. He thought he was leaving but no-one wanted him badly enough to make an acceptable offer. He had four players ahead of him, while everyone was also talking up Williams and Koumetio. He was the forgotten man but all of a sudden he was needed and he answered the bell big time.

 

Whatever happens with him in the future he can always look back on this game with pride. I have a feeling we’re going to see a fair bit more of him though, even when Matip and Fabinho are back. We’ll need to rotate and I can definitely envisage scenarios where he’s brought on late when we’re about to face an aerial bombardment. 

 

Klopp loves that tactic of getting a third centre back on for the last few minutes, and Phillips looks perfect for that because he wants to go and head everything that comes near him.

 

So all in all, despite all the problems we’ve had to deal with and all the obstacles that have been placed in our path so far, here we are top of the league again.

 

We’ve got things to work on and areas we need to improve but we’ve also got half a dozen players due to return in the next week or two as well. Having Matip and Thiago available again will be massive for us.

 

Those games like this when we need to unlock a packed defence, we can have Thiago and Shaqiri both around the edge of the box trying to pick out Salah, Mané and Jota. That’s going to take some stopping.

 

I just hope we can through the game in Italy with no further injuries and then let’s get stuck into those FFP dodging, bus attack whining, human rights violating, LFC obsessed Manc fuckstains.

 

 

Team: Alisson; Alexander-Arnold, Phillips, Gomez, Robertson; Henderson, Wijnaldum, Jones (Shaqiri); Salah (Milner), Firmino (Jota), Mané:


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Thing is, it was disallowed for a foul on the defender though, which I don’t get at all. I watched the replay five or six times and not once did I think there was a foul on the defender. Maybe I was too fixated on looking at the challenge on the keeper that I missed something, so I’ve gone back and looked again and I still don’t see it. There is no foul on the defender. Not even close.

It couldn't have been given against the keeper, as neither he or Mane touched the ball. So the only way to disallow the goal was a foul on the defender.

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We are approaching a non contact sport though. Moaninho said he misses the game he loves plus Goaline technology and I agree with him. However, if the pen is'nt a pen then the Mane foul is not a foul either.

 

Our play has seemed slow and laboured of late. Thiago will improve it but I wonder whether we are deliberately conserving energy because of the schedule?

 

But more should be made of these "Mentality Monsters". Lost in Kiev, win it the following season. Lost the league by the odd point in 195, win it the following year. Last 3 home games, go a goal down, come back and win late after a goal has been disallowed. And only a VAR cheat depriving us of another late winner at the Pit. Brilliant stuff.

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1 hour ago, Barnesey said:

We are approaching a non contact sport though. Moaninho said he misses the game he loves plus Goaline technology and I agree with him. However, if the pen is'nt a pen then the Mane foul is not a foul either.

 

Our play has seemed slow and laboured of late. Thiago will improve it but I wonder whether we are deliberately conserving energy because of the schedule?

 

But more should be made of these "Mentality Monsters". Lost in Kiev, win it the following season. Lost the league by the odd point in 195, win it the following year. Last 3 home games, go a goal down, come back and win late after a goal has been disallowed. And only a VAR cheat depriving us of another late winner at the Pit. Brilliant stuff.

Have to say that still really grates on me now also the fact we played them off the park that day as well

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1 hour ago, Barnesey said:

We are approaching a non contact sport though. Moaninho said he misses the game he loves plus Goaline technology and I agree with him. However, if the pen is'nt a pen then the Mane foul is not a foul either.

 

Our play has seemed slow and laboured of late. Thiago will improve it but I wonder whether we are deliberately conserving energy because of the schedule?

 

But more should be made of these "Mentality Monsters". Lost in Kiev, win it the following season. Lost the league by the odd point in 195, win it the following year. Last 3 home games, go a goal down, come back and win late after a goal has been disallowed. And only a VAR cheat depriving us of another late winner at the Pit. Brilliant stuff.

I think we do this a lot more, I was saying to my mate who is a Leeds fan it's hard to keep up the intensity they play with all season in the premier league.

Our first full season with Klopp we played similar to that all game, and was top at Christmas but badly faded; I do think we manage games a lot more energy wise now.

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4 hours ago, Spy Bee said:

It couldn't have been given against the keeper, as neither he or Mane touched the ball. So the only way to disallow the goal was a foul on the defender.

 

That surely can't be right? 

 

You can commit a foul when neither player touches the ball. What if you're chasing a through ball and get pulled back?

 

I've watched it so many times now and I just can't see any foul on the defender. It's reached a point where I think there must be something wrong with me as how can others see it but I can't?

 

I mean, sometimes you see a decision where you totally disagree with how it's interpreted, but you can see why it was given. Like the Kane / Lallana one. Completely wrong decision but if you want to interpret that as a foul on Kane you can at least make a case, albeit a totally flawed one.

 

This one is mad. You can argue it's a foul on the keeper as Sadio challenges him. He doesn't do anything to the defender though, he's making no play at him at all.

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15 hours ago, Kurt said:

Does anyone believes Matip will be back. The last two times he has returned he lasted 1 match before going out again. He seems broken.

 

He's got Sturridge DNA.

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50 minutes ago, Anubis said:

If you’re upset about Souness and Murphy, wait until you see Cascarino in The Times today...

 

Didn't know what this was but just seen it on Twitter.

 

For those who havent seen, the headline of the article reads "Mohamed Salah dive was insult to Nobby Stiles and the game he loved".

 

At least Mo hasn't frauded himself an international career based on fucking lies. Wonder how insulted 'Nobby' was by that? 

 

Millwall cunt.

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24 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Didn't know what this was but just seen it on Twitter.

 

For those who havent seen, the headline of the article reads "Mohamed Salah dive was insult to Nobby Stiles and the game he loved".

 

At least Mo hasn't frauded himself an international career based on fucking lies. Wonder how insulted 'Nobby' was by that? 

 

Millwall cunt.

Liverpool fan my arse. 

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29 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

That surely can't be right? 

 

You can commit a foul when neither player touches the ball. What if you're chasing a through ball and get pulled back?

But the ball wasn't in the keepers control, so any contact between the two players couldn't really go in favour of the keeper. What's to say the keeper didn't foul Mane?

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Couldn’t agree more about Bobby Dave. It’s sad but the reality is he’s been bang average for a while - I know we don’t ditch our own, but the truth is he’s a one goal in ten games striker at the mo and that’s not what we need

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11 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

But the ball wasn't in the keepers control, so any contact between the two players couldn't really go in favour of the keeper. What's to say the keeper didn't foul Mane?

Mane moved towards the keeper, not vice versa. And the issue of the keeper's  control is irrelevant. The contact made it more difficult for Fabianski to get up and save the follow up, 

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You could argue that it was a dangerous studs-up challenge on the keeper but there was no foul on the defender. 

 

And as for Kane, he would have been sent off in rugby. The rugby refs/linesmen/VAR officials have no difficulty whatsoever in working out who's challenging for a ball in the air and who's barging/blocking in a dangerous fashion. 

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I thought it was a foul on the keeper as soon as it happened to be honest. The attacks on Mo are only to be expected by the shower of shit that passes for pundits in this country. I am pretty sure that if he was  Mike from Essex and not Mo the Egyptian King it would be a different story.

Up Vote for the last line as well, Brilliantnt.

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1 hour ago, rubble-rouser said:

Mane moved towards the keeper, not vice versa. And the issue of the keeper's  control is irrelevant. The contact made it more difficult for Fabianski to get up and save the follow up, 

It also made it more difficult for Mane to get up. I'd say it was incidental, and nobody could be blamed.

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