Liverpool 2 West Ham 1 (Apr 13 2025)

32 minutes ago, tlw content said:

 

We only need two wins to guarantee it and Leicester away next week is quite literally the easiest game we could have. Southampton are shite but they are at least fairly competitive most weeks even though they always lose. Leicester have just been dogshit for months, especially at home.

 

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The goal came from a subsequent corner, Dave, after one of their players went down very easily looking for a foul when the Diaz corner was cleared, and Macca strode on and took a shot from the angle that the goalie tipped around.

Dave, the buzz was there 100% with Virgil's winning goal. That was the moment when we nailed it and for those of us biting them for the last few weeks this was the release of emotions descending from the terraces onto the pitch where VVD was standing arms outstretched kissing the badge. 

As much as we wanted to believe the title was won weeks ago let's not forget the hurt of the Gerrard slip and the years chasing forlornly after the cheats. Or the one fucking year we strolled the League but nearly had it taken away from us. 

That moment - the VVD goal, will live with me right up there. 

Next season is next season. This team has its flaws but I'm loving how they have delivered us the title we crave and the celebration to follow. 

Said before, as you guys continue to say, there is no "chase" little or no jeopardy,  the players are maybe scarred by previous seasons and are nervy, but us fans should be celebrating every game, taunting the rest of the PL because they know its been over for ages, the fans know, its just the players.

The pedestrian tempo does just take all the excitement out of the run in.  

Also let's not paint the cheats as some all conquering smashing everyone every week, many a time they scraped over the line....(Cunts)

Maybe, as you say, the relief its won sees the shackles off and that confidence rolls into next season.

We know how to win tight games be nice to win "magnificently ". Strengthen in the summer and drive for no.21

Dave, I don’t agree when you wrote that what happened in second half is because of the players, not the manager. The manager has the option to make bold substitutions ti start playing again and sending a message to those on the pitch. He decided not to, so that was fine with him  I guess.

2 hours ago, beejay said:

Dave, the buzz was there 100% with Virgil's winning goal. That was the moment when we nailed it and for those of us biting them for the last few weeks this was the release of emotions descending from the terraces onto the pitch where VVD was standing arms outstretched kissing the badge. 

 

As much as we wanted to believe the title was won weeks ago let's not forget the hurt of the Gerrard slip and the years chasing forlornly after the cheats. Or the one fucking year we strolled the League but nearly had it taken away from us. 

 

That moment - the VVD goal, will live with me right up there. 

Fantastic. The circle of joy gets ever wider. Soon, it will encompass all Reds. What a time to be alive.

3 hours ago, sir roger said:

The goal came from a subsequent corner, Dave, after one of their players went down very easily looking for a foul when the Diaz corner was cleared, and Macca strode on and took a shot from the angle that the goalie tipped around.

Paqueta was the player, with an outrageous dive.

1 hour ago, Arnaud said:

Dave, I don’t agree when you wrote that what happened in second half is because of the players, not the manager. The manager has the option to make bold substitutions ti start playing again and sending a message to those on the pitch. He decided not to, so that was fine with him  I guess.

 

 

I couldn’t understand the manager’s choice of subs and his continued non use of Elliott and Chiesa.

There is much debate in the media about whether this might be the worst Premier League: this game suggests the opposite might be true. The 17th best team in the land can boast kudus and Bowen and look better than the champions elect for at least 45 minutes. Add to that the next worst team boast 3 Brazilian internationals and the implication is we are walking the most competitive competition since football began. 

Makes me feel better anyway. 

1 hour ago, Barnesey said:

There is much debate in the media about whether this might be the worst Premier League: this game suggests the opposite might be true. The 17th best team in the land can boast kudus and Bowen and look better than the champions elect for at least 45 minutes. Add to that the next worst team boast 3 Brazilian internationals and the implication is we are walking the most competitive competition since football began. 

 

Makes me feel better anyway. 

This worst premier league season is just nonsense . The bottom line is that there are no really easy games now . We did the hard yards early on and will be worthy winners . The naysayers can fuck off.

The fact that there are five CL places for the Prem next season tells its own story. 

The PL is the strongest it's ever been in terms of the depth and there not being many easy games. Equally, in terms of the title challengers it's as bad as I can remember. We're the only 'big six' club performing as we should. I could see Arsenal being strong again next season but the others are all way off.

Part of the reason for that though is the strength of the rest of the league. You can't just rock up to a Bournemouth or Fulham now and expect to win at 50% capacity. So the likes of Spurs and United, who just don't have the quality they did have, are being overtaken by Brentford, Bournemouth, Fulham, Villa, Newcastle etc who are just much better run than they are.

1 hour ago, dave u said:

The PL is the strongest it's ever been in terms of the depth and there not being many easy games. Equally, in terms of the title challengers it's as bad as I can remember. We're the only 'big six' club performing as we should. I could see Arsenal being strong again next season but the others are all way off.

 

Part of the reason for that though is the strength of the rest of the league. You can't just rock up to a Bournemouth or Fulham now and expect to win at 50% capacity. So the likes of Spurs and United, who just don't have the quality they did have, are being overtaken by Brentford, Bournemouth, Fulham, Villa, Newcastle etc who are just much better run than they are.

Does this not negate what you said about West Ham being 17th? It's a false position for the players and manager they have. If we had drawn it wouldn't have been like drawing at home to Everton three years ago who were genuinely shit. 

1 hour ago, RobbieOR said:

 

Does this not negate what you said about West Ham being 17th? It's a false position for the players and manager they have. If we had drawn it wouldn't have been like drawing at home to Everton three years ago who were genuinely shit. 

Not really no, mainly because there's no way we should be getting outplayed for more or less the entire second half at home by them when we're on the brink of winning the title. Similar thing happened against Wolves too, which also shouldn't be happening. These teams are all capable of hurting you, whether it's a counter attack, set-piece or even a goal in general play. That's football and it's normal, especially when most of these sides have two or three genuinely good players. What they shouldn't be able to do though, is dominate the game.

22 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Not really no, mainly because there's no way we should be getting outplayed for more or less the entire second half at home by them when we're on the brink of winning the title. Similar thing happened against Wolves too, which also shouldn't be happening. These teams are all capable of hurting you, whether it's a counter attack, set-piece or even a goal in general play. That's football and it's normal, especially when most of these sides have two or three genuinely good players. What they shouldn't be able to do though, is dominate the game.

I thought we opened the second half decent enough but after 10 minutes we just dropped off. Paquetta was sitting deep and had so much room and time . I still don’t know why Tsimikas came off so early and Slot really should have brought on Endo to press Paquetta.

We certainly aren't firing up front but the biggest issue for me is how vulnerable we look both in midfield and defence.

Second half it seemed to me that West Ham could carve out clear chances with ease, (as did Fulham)  whereas we often struggled to create anything remotely close- hence the momentum swing and the crowd being quiet.    

There was a little spell at 1-1 for a few mins where it seemed every West Ham player to receive the ball had to start fuckin ballet dancing on it, step overs, drag backs, pirouettes, the lot. They thought they were the Harlem bleeding Globe Trotters. I was just willing someone to put one of them into row Z. Ridiculous.

50 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Not really no, mainly because there's no way we should be getting outplayed for more or less the entire second half at home by them when we're on the brink of winning the title. Similar thing happened against Wolves too, which also shouldn't be happening. These teams are all capable of hurting you, whether it's a counter attack, set-piece or even a goal in general play. That's football and it's normal, especially when most of these sides have two or three genuinely good players. What they shouldn't be able to do though, is dominate the game.

That's just the nature of how the league works now though. Those three genuinely good players in most of these sides are good enough to play in the Champions League. I think you're underestimating the level of nerves among the players. We're miles clear but its still a massive hurdle to get through. That definitely contributed to why they dropped off.  

2 hours ago, RobbieOR said:

 

That's just the nature of how the league works now though. Those three genuinely good players in most of these sides are good enough to play in the Champions League. I think you're underestimating the level of nerves among the players. We're miles clear but its still a massive hurdle to get through. That definitely contributed to why they dropped off.  

Agree with this. It’s far easier to score a goal on a counter-attack so (whether consciously or subconsciously) we dropped deeper to reduce their scoring chances instead of pressing for the second. We were nervous while they had nothing to lose so could just go for it. 

Another great write-up, and I agree with most of what you write. I disagree on this though, and was about to write something similar in the podcast thread (where you said the same).

“Mo vanished in the second half but I don’t put that on him at all. He was razor sharp in the first half and then he couldn’t get the ball. He didn’t stop playing well, he just wasn’t able to do anything because the team stopped getting him the ball. It was good seeing him back to being himself again, and I have a gut feeling he’s going to bang in a hat-trick next week.”

I think Mo as at the stage of his career when he very quickly finds out if he will have any luck with the fullback or not. When he’s up against the Mykolenko’s, Zinchenko’s and Ben Davies’ of the the league, he knows he will get results as he’s as quick (or quicker) than them, with the added bonus of having the ball and knowing what to do with it. Up against good defenders with pace though, he is next to hopeless in terms of doing something 1v1 against them. The list of athletic defenders that have taken his lunch money in 2025 is worryingly long. When he finds no joy, he retreats and doesn’t engage them in the same way, no longer wanting to receive the ball unless there’s a 2v1 happening (Bradley/Szobo over/underlapping). 

Our players (and staff) know this too, and when Wan-Bissaka switched sides, we were content with letting him and Salah neutralise each other, relying on Diaz instead. This is not Salah’s “fault” as such, but for me it is a real worry now that we’ve decided to keep him for two more years. The way we play (4-3-3 even more than 4-2-3-1) works best with a CF with good touch/awareness and two quick wingers that can both run in behind and take on outside defenders 1v1. Our Mane-Firmino-Salah trio was among top 3 all time in my opinion in that regard. 

We have relied more on our midfield (as well as Trent’s brilliance on the ball) to provide creativity and options for Mo to pass the ball rather than the speedster he was back in 2017-2021 (?). He has become much, much better at this, but I am unsure if we can afford him to be a deep-lying playmaker from the right hand side if we want to keep winning titles and going further in Europe.

I’m rambling now, but my point is that Mo being up against that LB (who threw an all-time stinker) and Wan-Bissaka (who for all his faults with the ball is among the best 1v1 defenders in the league) was much more of a factor than that we couldn’t get Mo the ball. Mo was just not willing (and/or capable) to escape W-B.

52 minutes ago, lebron said:

Another great write-up, and I agree with most of what you write. I disagree on this though, and was about to write something similar in the podcast thread (where you said the same).

 

“

Mo vanished in the second half but I don’t put that on him at all. He was razor sharp in the first half and then he couldn’t get the ball. He didn’t stop playing well, he just wasn’t able to do anything because the team stopped getting him the ball. It was good seeing him back to being himself again, and I have a gut feeling he’s going to bang in a hat-trick next week.”

 

I think Mo as at the stage of his career when he very quickly finds out if he will have any luck with the fullback or not. When he’s up against the Mykolenko’s, Zinchenko’s and Ben Davies’ of the the league, he knows he will get results as he’s as quick (or quicker) than them, with the added bonus of having the ball and knowing what to do with it. Up against good defenders with pace though, he is next to hopeless in terms of doing something 1v1 against them. The list of athletic defenders that have taken his lunch money in 2025 is worryingly long. When he finds no joy, he retreats and doesn’t engage them in the same way, no longer wanting to receive the ball unless there’s a 2v1 happening (Bradley/Szobo over/underlapping). 

 

Our players (and staff) know this too, and when Wan-Bissaka switched sides, we were content with letting him and Salah neutralise each other, relying on Diaz instead. This is not Salah’s “fault” as such, but for me it is a real worry now that we’ve decided to keep him for two more years. The way we play (4-3-3 even more than 4-2-3-1) works best with a CF with good touch/awareness and two quick wingers that can both run in behind and take on outside defenders 1v1. Our Mane-Firmino-Salah trio was among top 3 all time in my opinion in that regard. 

 

We have relied more on our midfield (as well as Trent’s brilliance on the ball) to provide creativity and options for Mo to pass the ball rather than the speedster he was back in 2017-2021 (?). He has become much, much better at this, but I am unsure if we can afford him to be a deep-lying playmaker from the right hand side if we want to keep winning titles and going further in Europe.

 

I’m rambling now, but my point is that Mo being up against that LB (who threw an all-time stinker) and Wan-Bissaka (who for all his faults with the ball is among the best 1v1 defenders in the league) was much more of a factor than that we couldn’t get Mo the ball. Mo was just not willing (and/or capable) to escape W-B.

good post.  I definitely think your last paragraph is accurate, but I also agree to a degree with Dave saying the service to Mo (and the other forwards) was not great.  

Two things can be true, and we need another option to bring the ball more effectively to Mo if/when Trent leaves. 
 

My worry is the better fbs will push right up the field as they are no longer worried about Mo’s pace in behind (nor should they be)

6 hours ago, RobbieOR said:

 

That's just the nature of how the league works now though. Those three genuinely good players in most of these sides are good enough to play in the Champions League. I think you're underestimating the level of nerves among the players. We're miles clear but its still a massive hurdle to get through. That definitely contributed to why they dropped off.  

If they're nervous with a double figure lead in April then God help us the next time we're in a tight one.

In response to Lebron, I agree with a fair few of the points you're making. There have been loads of games in recent seasons where, like you say, Mo couldn't beat the full back 1v1 and would repeatedly just run into them and lose the ball. That might have happened if he'd tried to go at Wan-Bissaka and I wouldn't have been surprised if it had.

That didn't happen though because we just didn't get him the ball at all. No matter how things are going he never hides, so if he's not getting the ball it's because the team aren't giving it to him. If we get him it and he's shit, I'll say so. I'm probably more critical of Mo than most are I'd say. I can't fault him for Sunday though. 

1 hour ago, dave u said:

In response to Lebron, I agree with a fair few of the points you're making. There have been loads of games in recent seasons where, like you say, Mo couldn't beat the full back 1v1 and would repeatedly just run into them and lose the ball. That might have happened if he'd tried to go at Wan-Bissaka and I wouldn't have been surprised if it had.

 

That didn't happen though because we just didn't get him the ball at all. No matter how things are going he never hides, so if he's not getting the ball it's because the team aren't giving it to him. If we get him it and he's shit, I'll say so. I'm probably more critical of Mo than most are I'd say. I can't fault him for Sunday though. 

I think this is where we probably have differing views. He doesn’t intentionally hide as such, but his lack of pace now means he is not really a viable option when tightly marked by a physically superior fullback. Would have helped if the game was a bit more stretched, but the few times we regained the ball in positive situations, Salah couldn’t get rid of Wan Bissaka.

I was actually really surprised West Ham didn’t switch sooner, as no matter how much his powers have diminished, Salah will still destroy a rookie like that. It’s akin to putting a 4th choice rookie corner up against Mahomes/Brady and their top receiver. My main gripe isn’t necessarily with Salah, I just fear for the future a bit. Check out Barcola and Khvaratskelia tonight to see the difference real pace combined with dribbling ability does to middling English full-backs.

We NEED more pace in the forward positions next year if we’re to accomplish anything in Europe at least.