Colombian wants in but Reds prefer Belgian

For a player who's major attribute is his height he seems to score an inordinate amount of goals with his feet.

I didn't say that he can't score with his feet. I said he's a target man and we're not wired to play that way.

Besides, if you want someone to kick the ball hard in the direction of the net we can get any number of teenagers to do that. They'll probably offer some quick movement while they're at it as well.

I didn't say that he can't score with his feet. I said he's a target man and we're not wired to play that way.

 

Besides, if you want someone to kick the ball hard in the direction of the net we can get any number of teenagers to do that. They'll probably offer some quick movement while they're at it as well.

Are we wired to play with a striker who likes to run at players, or use movement to get into space?

Are we wired to play with a striker who likes to run at players, or use movement to get into space?

Both. Sterling as a false 9 last season and Suarez the previous season.

Does Benteke provide either of those?

Both. Sterling as a false 9 last season and Suarez the previous season.

 

Does Benteke provide either of those?

We would be better w Benteke upfront than Sterling as a false 9.

No one in the world is better at it than Suarez so that may be a moot point

Does Benteke provide either of those?

Yes, he does.

We would be better w Benteke upfront than Sterling as a false 9.

 

No one in the world is better at it than Suarez so that may be a moot point

But we played with him as a false 9 to hear effect last season (at least for a while).

Then there's Sturridge. He's got great movement, as well as pace, and our season fell apart without him. How well did our battering rams of Lambert and Balotelli do?

Point is, if we didn't faff around with Benteke this month, we could have put that money into getting Dybala or Vietto, who would have suited us much better.

I know it's lazy to write him off as a one dimensional player, but fact is, a large percentage of his goals DO come from crosses or quick balls to his feet while he's in or around the penalty area. To claim otherwise is just as lazy.

He's a target man, there's no way of convincing me he's not.Every time I see him play he's played as a target man. He doesn't drop into midfield often, you'd rarely see him going wide, he'll never beat his man with pace, and he doesn't often go past players with skill. He uses his height and power to his advantage. That's what target men do. Liverpool don't do crosses, we had the least amount of crosses in the league last season. That eliminates a big part of his game, meaning he wouldn't be as effective as he was at Villa.

And I'm sorry, but did I see a Drogba comparison on here earlier? Drogba was a cunt that had it all; pace, power, skill, control, motivation. There's no way in Hell that the two can be realistically compared on the pitch.

I've learnt my lessons with Carroll and Balotelli. Benteke is a poor fit for LFC. It's a pity that others can't see it, especially our manager who believes that any player who has a good game against us is worth spending all the cash in the account for.

Yes, he does.

Nope, calling bull on that.

He's not fast enough, and he doesn't have the skill to go past players ala Sturridge or Suarez. He'll be more comfortable holding play up waiting for a midfielder to make a late run into the box.

@ smilezzz  -  You are arguing with two guys who do not want him as a transfer.

@ smilezzz - You are arguing with two guys who do not want him as a transfer.

My apologies if so, but then why sing his praises and merits to the team?

Cuz he is a little better than you are giving him credit for and a damn sight better than the striker options we had last year, and more to the point - if it is him or nothing, bring him on

Point is, if we didn't faff around with Benteke this month, we could have put that money into getting Dybala or Vietto, who would have suited us much better.

 

We could have, absolutely......I mean if you ignore the fact one said they wanted to stay in Italy and the other wouldn't have qualified for a work permit.

Nope, calling bull on that.

 

He's not fast enough, and he doesn't have the skill to go past players ala Sturridge or Suarez. He'll be more comfortable holding play up waiting for a midfielder to make a late run into the box.

Again, the majority of his goals last season would contradict that.

We could have, absolutely......I mean if you ignore the fact one said they wanted to stay in Italy and the other wouldn't have qualified for a work permit.

Nah, throw enough money at Dybala and we would have got him, and I'm sure we could have got the work permit approved for Vietto. He was playing for a decent side in arguably the strongest league in the world.

But not an international and the FA have clamped down on the requirements for work permits (while also bringing in a threshold for the number of games a player plays for his nation based on Rankings rather than the old flat 75%).

There's a reason Arsenal didn't go for either as well given they were as heavily linked as us.

Again, the majority of his goals last season would contradict that.

I don't know, it all sounds very Andy Carroll -ish to me.

Played well against us - check

Young - check

Beast in the air - check

Cracking shot - check

Poor injury record - check

It seems as if it's going to be him. Nothing will make me happy about it, unless he proves me wrong next season. I'll gladly eat my words then.

I just know that it won't work out. I'd rather us sign someone tailored to enhance our team, rather than someone who we need to tailor our team for in order for there to be improvement.

http://youtu.be/CVGxa8-SM3I

Fuck it, I'm on board.

He's more Drogba than Carroll that's for sure and if the unthinkable happens and he stays fit and kicks on then he'll be unplayable. Look at some of those goals and imagine Coutinho, Lallana and Firmino zipping quick balls about the edge of the box with the big lug lingering around waiting to smash the ball with all the subtlety of a Parisian street rapist.

But not an international and the FA have clamped down on the requirements for work permits (while also bringing in a threshold for the number of games a player plays for his nation based on Rankings rather than the old flat 75%).

 

There's a reason Arsenal didn't go for either as well given they were as heavily linked as us.

Didn't know that, cheers.

 

 

Fuck it, I'm on board.

 

He's more Drogba than Carroll that's for sure and if the unthinkable happens and he stays fit and kicks on then he'll be unplayable. Look at some of those goals and imagine Coutinho, Lallana and Firmino zipping quick balls about the edge of the box with the big lug lingering around waiting to smash the ball with all the subtlety of a Parisian street rapist.

I refuse to watch that out of principle. And because I'm a petulant bitch.

But mainly out of principle.

http://youtu.be/CVGxa8-SM3I

 

Fuck it, I'm on board.

 

He's more Drogba than Carroll that's for sure and if the unthinkable happens and he stays fit and kicks on then he'll be unplayable. Look at some of those goals and imagine Coutinho, Lallana and Firmino zipping quick balls about the edge of the box with the big lug lingering around waiting to smash the ball with all the subtlety of a Parisian street rapist.

Pfft calls himself a target man, 1:15 into that he had the perfect opportunity to head the ball and he kicked it. He's a disgrace.

A fuckin disgwace.

Bagsy having "good touch for a big man" on Aldo cliche bingo.

My original point on this subject was meant to give reasons why Benteke would be a better choice for us than Bacca. I also said that Benteke wasn't a dream signing for me. 

Can't normally be arsed with people trying to mock me, but thought I'd make an exception here as the British press would be proud of the way some of the posters take things out of context.

Jairzinho; from my original post on why Benteke would be a good fit for a side otherwise bereft of physically dominant players.

He's big, strong, has great pace and leap...

You can tell a striker is not much cop if the first words used to describe his attributes are big and strong.

Our strikers are skilful geniuses like Dalglish, Fowler or Suarez or fast and deadly like Torres and Rush.

Big and strong is midtable talk.

To which Jose Jones took out the two words big and strong to emphasise why he wouldn't want him here.

Of course it is, it's unfathomable that anyone with strength, size and pace as their main qualities could be effective and dominant at the top end of the Premier League.

Didier Drogba and Alan Shearer say hello btw...

I went back to my original statement (could probably have added leap here as well, even if Shearer normally used the same rhythm as Carroll when he needed to get up in the air for headers), as both Drogba and Shearer at times during their career had a good turn of pace to blend with their power and size (like Benteke has).

Do you think Alan Shearer's main attributes were being big and strong?

Here's you trying to mock me by the way....

More strong than big perhaps, allied with his (atleast early on) pace and powerful shot, yes. It certainly wasn't his silky skill or genius-like creativity and dribbling.

I probably shouldn't have included his powerful shot, but as that's another similarity between him and Benteke (and Drogba) I included that as well. More to show his strengths (physically) vs his other (slightly lacking) qualities.

Ha, you can't just add some other facets of his game.

 

Yes, it was his strength...well, that and his pace...and the fact he smashed in a worldie from 30 yards every other week.

 

At his absolute peak, which was at Blackburn, Sutton was the main target man.

Yep, the same pace I've been on about the entire time.

Agreed on the inverted sentence, although I think he added other facets to his game later on.

Shearer used to bully the fuck out of defenders using his size. it was as much a big factor in his game as it is for benteke

This was true in his Blackburn days as well, even if he bulked up even more during his Newcastle years.

Don't agree with that, he became a shithouse with his physical play when he lost his pace but before that he was just an out and out poacher. The likes of Sutton and Ferdinand used to take a lot of the physical stuff off his shoulders. He was boss Shearer, the last England player I loved. 

I agree with the bolded and especially underlined part. Not so sure on the poacher role (I'd say someone like Aldridge was the epitome of a poacher). Shearer would use his strength, balance and pace to both outrun defenders to get in behind or be first to the ball. Again, not unlike Benteke.

Yeah, it was only the last couple of years at Newcastle that he was anything approaching a "target man".

 

At Southampton and Blackburn he was more like Batistuta.

I'd say that process started much sooner, I'd probably put some of it down to the change in (or lack of) striking partners as well.

Thumbs up for the Batistuta reference!

I find it strange that people can't or refuse to see that Benteke's major attributes are his height and power.

Obviously he has other good attributes, but those are the ones he relies on the most. Personally I see nothing wrong with that in a player provided they play for the right club. In truth, we are not the right club for that, and to hell with all this plan B shite. That didn't work out for us with Carroll and it won't work with Benteke, regardless of how superior he is to the former In all aspects.

If we do sign him I'll be pissed because that's a shitload of money that could have gone into improving the team with players who buy into our ethos, not a target man who will contribute very little to our build up play, and what I can almost guarantee will turn out to be a really crappy move.

Fuck the one in two record as well. Last season he played for mid table shite and only showed up in the second half of the season, scoring more than one goal a game in some games, in a team tailored to his strengths.

I don't doubt his ability, I doubt his fit for a team such as ours.

Underlined sentence; You are aware that he was out for a few months with a ruptured/snapped Achilles tendon, right? It's the only reason he's not at a top club already.

I sort of agree with the bolded sentence, but as I mentioned in my longwinded first post on the subject, I think we need more players with a physical presence if we are to have any success with our set pieces this season, as well as being able to withstand the inevitable aerial onslaught from the regular suspects in the league.

Edit: Having read your other posts about Benteke, I doubt you have seen more than a minute of youtube clips on him, nevermind a full game of football.

If not Benteke, who is the striker we should sign?

 

Looking at the current group:

 

Sturridge has the lot. Pace. Decent power. Skill. Shooting. Goals. However, can't be relied upon to stay fit for a meaningful length of time to impact a season.

 

Ings has several useful attributes. Reasonable pace, strength, finishing, pressing and tenacity. He could become a bigger player for us than we anticipate, or he could also just fail to make the step up, at which point he will remain a decent squad option.

 

Origi - he has pace to burn. Obviously a youngster, and it looked like he lost his way a bit in France last season, but I think this lad could go on to be a top striker. If it clicks into place for him I can see him playing off the shoulder of the defenders and latching on to all sorts of through balls from Firmino and Coutinho. The conundrum we face is that he is young, and much of what we hope for is only potential, and it may or may not be realized. I hope he gets enough playing time to show us what he can do.

 

Between those three (and goals from Firmino) we have a lot of eventualities covered, even if Sturridge struggles with fitness. Assuming Balotelli, Borini and Lambert all depart, it's already stronger than last season (it needs to be, mind).

 

But we need to be as sure as we can be that we will get plenty of goals, so another top striker is required. Ideally they will be someone of the level of Sturridge, with many of his qualities too. They need to be a clear level above Ings and Origi or its best not to bother signing them.

 

If not Benteke, who? Lacazette? Walcott? Aubemayang? Higuain? Reus? (With Klopp!)

Good post.

I rate an injury-free Benteke as better than all of the players in that list except Reus. There's no way in hell we would survive with Reus as a striker though, he would still need someone to create space for him. Not that he'd be considering moving here, either....

Could you imagine Higuain, Sturridge, Coutinho and Firmino interchanging? fast, fluid, free flowing football... it'd be a thing of beauty. We need to go all out on him, he'd complete our attack.

Higuain has gone seriously downhill since leaving Real. He'll get the odd goal still just from playing for two very good sides (Napoli and Argentina), but he's living on past merits, and certainly wouldn't be suited to the fast-paced English league. See also; Roberto Soldado and Fernando Morientes, both clever and stylish players with a nose (and head) for goal, but lacking pace and strength to cut it here.

For a player who's major attribute is his height he seems to score an inordinate amount of goals with his feet.

Yep.

Higuain is a little bit shit and slow now

Yep.

We would be better w Benteke upfront than Sterling as a false 9.

 

No one in the world is better at it than Suarez so that may be a moot point

Yep.

But we played with him as a false 9 to hear effect last season (at least for a while).

 

Then there's Sturridge. He's got great movement, as well as pace, and our season fell apart without him. How well did our battering rams of Lambert and Balotelli do?

 

 

Point is, if we didn't faff around with Benteke this month, we could have put that money into getting Dybala or Vietto, who would have suited us much better.

 

I know it's lazy to write him off as a one dimensional player, but fact is, a large percentage of his goals DO come from crosses or quick balls to his feet while he's in or around the penalty area. To claim otherwise is just as lazy.

 

He's a target man, there's no way of convincing me he's not.Every time I see him play he's played as a target man. He doesn't drop into midfield often, you'd rarely see him going wide, he'll never beat his man with pace, and he doesn't often go past players with skill. He uses his height and power to his advantage. That's what target men do. Liverpool don't do crosses, we had the least amount of crosses in the league last season. That eliminates a big part of his game, meaning he wouldn't be as effective as he was at Villa.

 

And I'm sorry, but did I see a Drogba comparison on here earlier? Drogba was a cunt that had it all; pace, power, skill, control, motivation. There's no way in Hell that the two can be realistically compared on the pitch.

 

I've learnt my lessons with Carroll and Balotelli. Benteke is a poor fit for LFC. It's a pity that others can't see it, especially our manager who believes that any player who has a good game against us is worth spending all the cash in the account for.

Bolded: Not a chance, see Cardie's posts.

Underlined: He CAN be a target man, in our side I think he would get other responsibilities too. His performances for both Belgium and Villa have proven that. As I said earlier, doubt you've seen a lot of him.

Cuz he is a little better than you are giving him credit for and a damn sight better than the striker options we had last year, and more to the point - if it is him or nothing, bring him on

Exactly, he's also much better than the other strikers we're being linked with.

We could have, absolutely......I mean if you ignore the fact one said they wanted to stay in Italy and the other wouldn't have qualified for a work permit.

Ouch.

Again, the majority of his goals last season would contradict that.

Yep.

But not an international and the FA have clamped down on the requirements for work permits (while also bringing in a threshold for the number of games a player plays for his nation based on Rankings rather than the old flat 75%).

 

There's a reason Arsenal didn't go for either as well given they were as heavily linked as us.

Quit talking sense.

http://youtu.be/CVGxa8-SM3I

 

Fuck it, I'm on board.

 

He's more Drogba than Carroll that's for sure and if the unthinkable happens and he stays fit and kicks on then he'll be unplayable. Look at some of those goals and imagine Coutinho, Lallana and Firmino zipping quick balls about the edge of the box with the big lug lingering around waiting to smash the ball with all the subtlety of a Parisian street rapist.

He certainly is, and I think he will be. Doubt it will be sexy enough for our resident Rodgers-out-and-no-to-Benteke-posters though.

Reina should have saved "4"