PODCAST: Liverpool 2 Wolves 1 - Match Reaction

I know you guys were at the game, so probably weren't aware of it. But the role of VAR (as opposed to the referee) in that game needs to be discussed.

Both Salah's disallowed goal and Jota's overturned penalty decision were bizarrely officiated: the former was given the quickest review you'll see in the circumstances (and no lines were displayed that I can recall); and the latter was basically decided by a single weird choice of replay angle (from the wrong side of the challenge at excessive distance, as opposed to the original shot which definitely suggested a foul).

I'm not sure that both decisions were ultimately wrong. However, both decisions were clearly determined very idiosyncratically in west London.

Yes the VAR check on the penalty was really strange. 

26 minutes ago, Code said:

Yes the VAR check on the penalty was really strange. 

As I said in the match thread, it would have been incredibly soft, but how many times have we seen a penalty decision overruled when contact has actually been made?

32 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

As I said in the match thread, it would have been incredibly soft, but how many times have we seen a penalty decision overruled when contact has actually been made?

Yes the contact was clear.

3 hours ago, Josef Svejk said:

I know you guys were at the game, so probably weren't aware of it. But the role of VAR (as opposed to the referee) in that game needs to be discussed.

 

Both Salah's disallowed goal and Jota's overturned penalty decision were bizarrely officiated: the former was given the quickest review you'll see in the circumstances (and no lines were displayed that I can recall); and the latter was basically decided by a single weird choice of replay angle (from the wrong side of the challenge at excessive distance, as opposed to the original shot which definitely suggested a foul).

 

I'm not sure that both decisions were ultimately wrong. However, both decisions were clearly determined very idiosyncratically in west London.

Two words “John” “Brooks”. 

8 minutes ago, Code said:

Yes the contact was clear.

 

Even the most blinkered red would concede that Jota initiated the contact there. But, as I say, there was contact. Once again, the officials hiding behind vague and ambiguous guidelines about high bars for overruling on-field decisions.

1 hour ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Even the most blinkered red would concede that Jota initiated the contact there. But, as I say, there was contact. Once again, the officials hiding behind vague and ambiguous guidelines about high bars for overruling on-field decisions.

Again: ref wasn't shown any footage from that side. A single poor replay from the opposite side was played to him on a loop.

That's a bizarre feature of VAR, actually. In rugby, the ref would request alternative angles from the TMO to make sure. In football, the VAR basically determines the outcome by selecting what is shown (or not) to the referee.

I think the main reason the fans and probably the players are twitchy is because of the position and the circumstances.  City will be back it next season and it’s a possibility Virg and Mo won’t be here.  We probably won’t have an opportunity like this again soon. You can then add in the next fixtures.  We absolutely needed to beat one of the relegation candidates at home and it looked like it wasn’t going to happen.  Everyone can see how the team is playing and has been so far this year and it was another repeat of it.

The idea that the nervyness has come before the shit performances is wrong.  It doesn’t matter how poor villa have been recently we’ve just been crap against Everton and Wolves.  The 7 point lead is precarious regardless of how inconsistent Arsenal have been and everyone is feeling it.

I haven't seen replays of either incident yet, but after what happened with Oliver in midweek I'm not going to complain about them getting stuff right just because I don't like the process in how they got it right!

2 minutes ago, The Guest said:

I think the main reason the fans and probably the players are twitchy is because of the position and the circumstances.  City will be back it next season and it’s a possibility Virg and Mo won’t be here.  We probably won’t have an opportunity like this again soon. You can then add in the next fixtures.  We absolutely needed to beat one of the relegation candidates at home and it looked like it wasn’t going to happen.  Everyone can see how the team is playing and has been so far this year and it was another repeat of it.

 

The idea that the nervyness has come before the shit performances is wrong.  It doesn’t matter how poor villa have been recently we’ve just been crap against Everton and Wolves.  The 7 point lead is precarious regardless of how inconsistent Arsenal have been and everyone is feeling it.

The fans feeling it is one thing. The players looking like they are feeling it is the big problem for me. There was no reason for them to shit themselves like that yesterday. Lads, it's fucking Wolves!!!

Paul called it horrible, which was exactly the word I'd use. I wasn't even stressed in those last 20 minutes because I had already discounted the likelihood of Wolves equalising. When Bradley shepherded the ball out for a goal kick, which was super play, with four minutes gone in injury time... definitely the biggest cheer of the day, and rightly so. 

13 games left, only natural that this team is remembering the same time last year. All that matters between now and the end of the season is matching the results of the teams beneath us. Will Arsenal or City win every game between now and May - I doubt it very much.

Villa away might be good for us, they will not play a low block and there will be chances for us. Positives are that Mo continues to be outstanding, Diaz looked better yesterday and Quansah will have taken some confidence from his half.

Good listen as always!

I wholeheartedly agree with Dave’s take on Slot and his admission of guilt. The way that was framed on the Sky coverage before the game was so agendadriven I almost put my boot through the TV. The sad thing is you probably can’t win any way you take on the PGMOL, but there’s no chance Slot’s getting away with anything by admitting he was wrong. See also the headlines today talking about Konate being incredibly lucky to escape a second yellow. Arrggghh. Feels like we ar part of one of those Ant & Dec memes with Sky (Neville/Carragher) and the PGMOL sitting together in the production room thinking of ways to screw us over to see how much we can take.

On the game, I think we made a conscious decision to play with control in the 2nd half, and take our opportunities when they presented themselves. Some sloppiness in the final 3rd meant those opportunities didn’t arrive, and/or were taken away with the offside call (no replay/lines and an incredibly quick check for something that looked marginal) and the non-penalty (which imo was the correct decision even if the lack of angles on the replay made it an even easier call to overturn than if you use the images posted above). As the half wore on we started sitting back, and a moment of genius from Cunha led to some nervousness and shift in momentum. Think we were defending fine until then, even if the crowd doesn’t like it when we sit back and invite pressure at home. It IS the main reason why we are bottom in the running and sprint stats, and why we will probably be fitter than the opposition for crunch time. I think that is the plan, anyways. It is a whole new world from what Klopp started out with, and will never excite me (or the rest of our support) the way Klopp’s early teams did. It MIGHT bring us a more sustainable base in terms of fitness and injuries though. i think that was Klopp’s idea when he brought in Thiago as well, giving us options of both being aggressive and having a bit more control. 

Problem is if the crowd starts getting on our players backs, and we let the pressure drop when we retreat into our own half. I have no problem with us setting up a low or mid-low block in periods of the game, but we can’t drop our aggression at the same time. The goal came as a result of us dropping our intensity (and some terrible defending by Gravenberch and van Dijk). What happened after that goal was more than a bit disappointing, as both our players and the crowd seemed to lose their cool a bit. I have a couple of thoughts on the subs that were made prior to the goal as well, even if they go directly against what the editor thinks…

The introduction of Nunez (and to an extent Bradley) caused us to lose even more control of the game (it had been slipping away from us already). For all of Trent’s faults, his ability to control the tempo of games is only matched by Mac Allister in our teams. Bradley might be a more defensively sound fullback, but he can’t step on the ball or switch tempo and play like Trent does. This will become apparent to Trent’s critics when he leaves us. I know Trent lost us the ball on several occasions today, highlighted by the one Ait-Nouri intercepted. Bradley does things simpler, but is a lot easier for the opposition to press. Which brings me over to Darwin…. I’ve had enough of him. He gives us so, so little unless the games are completely stretched and we play with the lead (or we are going full gung-ho, all out attack. There’s a place for him in those scenarios, much like for other physically strong, fast players with little to no footballing intelligence. Bringing him on when we are trying to protect the ball and control play though is (as it was yesterday) as brain dead as he is. He gives us nothing in the press, and the ball bounces off him like he has concrete in his boots. Unless you have a fetish for seeing no 9s run full sprint towards your own goal (sometimes he does it with the ball as well due to his inability to control it), I can’t see why you want him playing for us.

Going forward, I would have him as a 6th choice, solely being used in the scenarios mentioned above. I don’t really love Diaz as a 9 either, but at least he controls the ball and does his pressing duties well. If Jota isn’t fit and/or is being managed minutes-wise, I will MUCH rather have Diaz in the middle and Gakpo left than seeing Nunez amble around up there. If he still hasn’t understood when or where to press under first Klopp and now Slot, I am sorry, it ain’t going to be happening anytime soon (much like his expected outpouring of goals). Chiesa can come in and alleviate Salah for a couple of minutes, then Gakpo, Jota and Diaz rotate for the CF and LW/LF duties.

Probably should have gone in the Nunez thread, but I have already aired similar thought on there before. 

Don’t mistake this as an attack on him either, I really, really want him to succeed. My oldest loves him, and we all desperately cheer for him to score and be an important player for us. I’ve seen enough to not be tricked any longer, he’s not going to make it here, and I hope our management is ruthless enough to not have him playing any more meaningful minutes between now and the end of the season. He already screwed us in the run-in last year (along with Salah’s drop off after his injury) with his inexplicable misses, we can’t afford his lack of ability and intelligence to cost us another title or trophy.

1 hour ago, The Guest said:

I think the main reason the fans and probably the players are twitchy is Trent.

I fucking knew it...

But yeah, you're right. The capitulation last season left it's mark.

If we're gonna be taken seriously when we complain about referees, we can't be arguing the toss about that Jota non-pen. That's as clear a dive as you'll ever see. The only reason there was any contact was because Jota kicked his leg out.

It's surprising for such a clinical finisher with such a snout for goal that his first thought isn't cut it back and shoot, it's cut it back and wait for the contact. Not the first time we've seen that either. 

EDIT: Just realised why. It's because the Portuguese in him wins the internal battle with the clinical finisher. 

3 minutes ago, Chris said:

If we're gonna be taken seriously when we complain about referees, we can't be arguing the toss about that Jota non-pen. That's as clear a dive as you'll ever see. The only reason there was any contact was because Jota kicked his leg out.

 

It's surprising for such a clinical finisher with such a snout for goal that his first thought isn't cut it back and shoot, it's cut it back and wait for the contact. Not the first time we've seen that either. 

To be fair, I don’t really see many arguing about it, some of those who watched the game on TV have questioned why the ref only was showed it from one angle on the screen though. 

9 minutes ago, Code said:

To be fair, I don’t really see many arguing about it, some of those who watched the game on TV have questioned why the ref only was showed it from one angle on the screen though. 

Yeah fair enough. I've seen "there was contact" a few times though.

I thought Jota was pretty anonymous all game, apart from the dive. Very disappointing. 

3 hours ago, lebron said:

Good listen as always!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Dave’s take on Slot and his admission of guilt. The way that was framed on the Sky coverage before the game was so agendadriven I almost put my boot through the TV. The sad thing is you probably can’t win any way you take on the PGMOL, but there’s no chance Slot’s getting away with anything by admitting he was wrong. See also the headlines today talking about Konate being incredibly lucky to escape a second yellow. Arrggghh. Feels like we ar part of one of those Ant & Dec memes with Sky (Neville/Carragher) and the PGMOL sitting together in the production room thinking of ways to screw us over to see how much we can take.

 

On the game, I think we made a conscious decision to play with control in the 2nd half, and take our opportunities when they presented themselves. Some sloppiness in the final 3rd meant those opportunities didn’t arrive, and/or were taken away with the offside call (no replay/lines and an incredibly quick check for something that looked marginal) and the non-penalty (which imo was the correct decision even if the lack of angles on the replay made it an even easier call to overturn than if you use the images posted above). As the half wore on we started sitting back, and a moment of genius from Cunha led to some nervousness and shift in momentum. Think we were defending fine until then, even if the crowd doesn’t like it when we sit back and invite pressure at home. It IS the main reason why we are bottom in the running and sprint stats, and why we will probably be fitter than the opposition for crunch time. I think that is the plan, anyways. It is a whole new world from what Klopp started out with, and will never excite me (or the rest of our support) the way Klopp’s early teams did. It MIGHT bring us a more sustainable base in terms of fitness and injuries though. i think that was Klopp’s idea when he brought in Thiago as well, giving us options of both being aggressive and having a bit more control. 

 

Problem is if the crowd starts getting on our players backs, and we let the pressure drop when we retreat into our own half. I have no problem with us setting up a low or mid-low block in periods of the game, but we can’t drop our aggression at the same time. The goal came as a result of us dropping our intensity (and some terrible defending by Gravenberch and van Dijk). What happened after that goal was more than a bit disappointing, as both our players and the crowd seemed to lose their cool a bit. I have a couple of thoughts on the subs that were made prior to the goal as well, even if they go directly against what the editor thinks…

 

The introduction of Nunez (and to an extent Bradley) caused us to lose even more control of the game (it had been slipping away from us already). For all of Trent’s faults, his ability to control the tempo of games is only matched by Mac Allister in our teams. Bradley might be a more defensively sound fullback, but he can’t step on the ball or switch tempo and play like Trent does. This will become apparent to Trent’s critics when he leaves us. I know Trent lost us the ball on several occasions today, highlighted by the one Ait-Nouri intercepted. Bradley does things simpler, but is a lot easier for the opposition to press. Which brings me over to Darwin…. I’ve had enough of him. He gives us so, so little unless the games are completely stretched and we play with the lead (or we are going full gung-ho, all out attack. There’s a place for him in those scenarios, much like for other physically strong, fast players with little to no footballing intelligence. Bringing him on when we are trying to protect the ball and control play though is (as it was yesterday) as brain dead as he is. He gives us nothing in the press, and the ball bounces off him like he has concrete in his boots. Unless you have a fetish for seeing no 9s run full sprint towards your own goal (sometimes he does it with the ball as well due to his inability to control it), I can’t see why you want him playing for us.

 

Going forward, I would have him as a 6th choice, solely being used in the scenarios mentioned above. I don’t really love Diaz as a 9 either, but at least he controls the ball and does his pressing duties well. If Jota isn’t fit and/or is being managed minutes-wise, I will MUCH rather have Diaz in the middle and Gakpo left than seeing Nunez amble around up there. If he still hasn’t understood when or where to press under first Klopp and now Slot, I am sorry, it ain’t going to be happening anytime soon (much like his expected outpouring of goals). Chiesa can come in and alleviate Salah for a couple of minutes, then Gakpo, Jota and Diaz rotate for the CF and LW/LF duties.

 

Probably should have gone in the Nunez thread, but I have already aired similar thought on there before. 

Don’t mistake this as an attack on him either, I really, really want him to succeed. My oldest loves him, and we all desperately cheer for him to score and be an important player for us. I’ve seen enough to not be tricked any longer, he’s not going to make it here, and I hope our management is ruthless enough to not have him playing any more meaningful minutes between now and the end of the season. He already screwed us in the run-in last year (along with Salah’s drop off after his injury) with his inexplicable misses, we can’t afford his lack of ability and intelligence to cost us another title or trophy.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m amazed to say Micah Richards on Motd said that wasn’t a yellow for Konate !

8 minutes ago, suzy said:

I’m amazed to say Micah Richards on Motd said that wasn’t a yellow for Konate !

And that would be the correct opinion. The only people who think otherwise, I suspect, are trying to build a 'lucky Liverpool' narrative. Possibly the same people who also bang on about Arsenal's injuries.

After Wednesday, the next Liverpool game couldn't come soon enough.  I was delighted when it finally came around and we could all try to cleanse ourselves of Michael Oliver and could move on.

4 hours ago, lebron said:

Good listen as always!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Dave’s take on Slot and his admission of guilt. The way that was framed on the Sky coverage before the game was so agendadriven I almost put my boot through the TV. The sad thing is you probably can’t win any way you take on the PGMOL, but there’s no chance Slot’s getting away with anything by admitting he was wrong. See also the headlines today talking about Konate being incredibly lucky to escape a second yellow. Arrggghh. Feels like we ar part of one of those Ant & Dec memes with Sky (Neville/Carragher) and the PGMOL sitting together in the production room thinking of ways to screw us over to see how much we can take.

And there's a title to be won as we keep repeating.  If Slot contested anything or made a fuss, the energy would be swirling round the club to a huge degree.  It would be negative and it would be disruptive.

Even if you feel personally aggrieved, make it a non-story, take your medicine and win the league.

3 minutes ago, razor said:

 

And there's a title to be won as we keep repeating.  If Slot contested anything or made a fuss, the energy would be swirling round the club to a huge degree.  It would be negative and it would be disruptive.

 

Even if you feel personally aggrieved, make it a non-story, take your medicine and win the league.

Constantly bleating about injustices (and injuries) works for Arsenal because, by and large, they have large sections of the media saying the same things. The pearl clutching that follows any kind of transgression by our club is laughable.

Let's call the Jota penalty incident exactly what it was - a blatant dive. I will never understand why a player with the goal at his mercy would do that.

Another point on Robbo, If Quansah doesn't get that block Robbo's role would be forensically analyzed. He'd deep playing the winger on and then gets no where near the cross.

I think the directive at HT was to hold what we have and see out the game with a Slotball 2-0, conserve energy with 2 big away fixtures to come and Newcastle. But Cunha's goal out of nothing really changed that, especially on the back of Mo's goal being disallowed and the Jota incident.

Great listen though, love getting the in ground and local viewpoint.

Slot is indicating that the team is not overly tired or fatigued physically. Other Vlogs/podcasts are suggesting same. You guys nailed the actual reason for observed lethargy, and it is indeed a feedback loop of nerves between the players and fans-post derby. Hopefully we push on thru the ‘treacle’ quickly. 
 

This race is 100% in our hands. We are not relying on any other favourable results by others. It’s all down to us. We need to take a collective deep breath and get into the ride, and give our heroes the vibe to do what we know they can do. Play great football and win games well.