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PODCAST: CL Final Match Reaction

So near and yet so far. Having seen hopes of the Quadruple dashed a week earlier, the Reds missed out on the Treble too after being rope-a-doped by Carlo Ancelotti's Real Madrid in Paris.

 

The bigger story on the night of course was the disgraceful treatment of supporters before and after the game and we'll have a special pod dedicated to that this week, but for this one we're just covering the game itself. What went wrong and where do we need to improve to go one better next year?

 

Chris Smith is joined by Paul Natton, Julian Richards and TLW Editor Dave Usher to sift through the debris of a frustrating loss and look ahead to what is likely to be a big summer of ins and outs.

 

 


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In terms of what went wrong in the game, I agree a bit more with Dave, rather than Chris.

 

We basically give up two chances, the goal coming from a cross that Valverde admits after the game is supposed to be a shot, but he scuffs it, and it goes perfectly to Vinicius. Against a team with such precise technicians like Benzema and Modric, it's impossible to give up nothing. We're just unfortunate that what we did give up became such a clear chance, and some of it is bad luck. 

 

To Dave's point, what we do create isn't all that great. We open them up with a ball over the top to Salah, and that's where we should score, but the finish is a bit too central and Courtois can react and it ricochet's off his arm over the goal. The rest of our good chances are individual quality, not really us opening them up. Mane facing the centre backs, making space and forcing a really good save. A long shot from Salah. Everything else is pretty simple for Courtois and we just don't open Madrid up enough. 

 

Also, what I would have added is, if you look at our pressing stats in the game, they're terrible. After the first 30 minutes, we become really bad at it and it's likely why Madrid get more comfortable. Maybe that was just the result of the very long season. 

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51 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

What? Feckin Leicester?

I know! Not confirmed but it might be there because they won it last year.

The season starts a week early because of the December World Cup so Wembley already had something else on.

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19 minutes ago, suzy said:

I know! Not confirmed but it might be there because they won it last year.

The season starts a week early because of the December World Cup so Wembley already had something else on.

This is a joke if it is., it's not the fucking Eurovision Song Contest.  Capacity there is less than 40K, although I do concede it might give Chris some some more material for his anti-Leicester arsenal.

 

 

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In contrast to the game, I totally disagree with Dave on Salah. You can't sell him now, especially if Mané goes. Reason being, there is no one left at the club good enough to play on the right every game. That area would be in total reconstruction.

 

With Mané, even if we don't buy a replacement, we can say look Diaz and Jota can play on the left, Jota and Firmino play in the middle. There are already good players there, plus you think about a replacement on top of that. 

 

If you sell Salah, you have Minamino, who might go as well, plus Kade Gordon. That is practically nothing. Your replacement signing would then have to be absolutely incredible right away, or you'd have to play Jota there, and he's crap there. It's too big of a loss.

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Impressive how all you boys can talk so much sense after the 10 days we’ve just had. Enjoyed every single pod but this one has been the best. Just hope you continue doing them, I’d happily make a contribution   for Jules rants alone.

 

Up the BDE from the Liverpool way boys.!

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9 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

In contrast to the game, I totally disagree with Dave on Salah. You can't sell him now, especially if Mané goes. Reason being, there is no one left at the club good enough to play on the right every game. That area would be in total reconstruction.

 

With Mané, even if we don't buy a replacement, we can say look Diaz and Jota can play on the left, Jota and Firmino play in the middle. There are already good players there, plus you think about a replacement on top of that. 

 

If you sell Salah, you have Minamino, who might go as well, plus Kade Gordon. That is practically nothing. Your replacement signing would then have to be absolutely incredible right away, or you'd have to play Jota there, and he's crap there. It's too big of a loss.

 

No I agree, but I wouldn't be selling both. That was my point, not sure I made that clearly enough. I wouldn't sell Sadio is Mo isn't signing a contract.

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11 hours ago, Red_or_Dead said:

This is a joke if it is., it's not the fucking Eurovision Song Contest.  Capacity there is less than 40K, although I do concede it might give Chris some some more material for his anti-Leicester arsenal.

 

 

Me and Jules when anyone says "Arsenal"

 

hardy-boyz-matt-hardy.gif

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12 hours ago, The Midnight Rambler said:

Impressive how all you boys can talk so much sense after the 10 days we’ve just had. Enjoyed every single pod but this one has been the best. Just hope you continue doing them, I’d happily make a contribution   for Jules rants alone.

 

Up the BDE from the Liverpool way boys.!

BDE?

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Gotta love a listener knowing more about the pod than one of the main contributors does.

 

For the record, I knew what it was but I did have to think a few seconds before I twigged. Chris and Jules also knew.

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13 hours ago, The Midnight Rambler said:

Impressive how all you boys can talk so much sense after the 10 days we’ve just had. Enjoyed every single pod but this one has been the best. Just hope you continue doing them, I’d happily make a contribution   for Jules rants alone.

 

Up the BDE from the Liverpool way boys.!


It might be the energy, but the reality is much different. I was at the fucking back of the line when they were handing those things out. 

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Sadly, I think the nonsense with uefa and the police affected the players and therefore the performance. The ridiculous scene of our team bus being stuck in traffic, while the Madrid bus had been escorted swiftly through any trouble. Our lads were stuck on the bus while the Madrid players were on the pitch!

 

And the players obviously knew something was happening outside and would have been worried about friends and family - they seen the huge gaps in the stands, they knew something was wrong.

 

All this knocked a slight edge off us I think, which is all it takes in a massive game like this. 

 

The performance could have been a bit better in both penalty boxes, but in the circumstances I can't blame the players. 

 

Also, Benzema was offside for their goal, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind. 

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I loved all the pods and found very little to disagree with all season. This one not so much, some of the reaction was OTT. We played 4 players that were injured 7 days previous, that was the leveller right there, throw in the anxiety around crowd access and we are down 30% or 40%. I'm convinced with even just one of Thiago or Fab fully fit we would have won, probably would have won if Naby started instead of Thiago.

 

The other point I take issue with is selling Mo, Klopp treats contracts as sacred, he hasn't sold a single one of "his" players in 6 years. Everyone that has left wanted to or ran down their contract, the only ones sold were players he inherited or youngsters. He won't be allowing FSG jeopardise the relationships that run right through the club. They run through walls for him because he would do it for them, he hasn't forced Ox out despite clearly losing all faith in him so no way he changes tact for Mo.

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Klopp reviews it season by season. I've heard him say about making a commitment to eachother for the full season and then they review it from there. Not so much "you've got five years, you'll stay for five years".

 

You can't keep letting players leave for free. The occasional exceptional circumstance is fine, but we've got five players out of contract next summer. Are we going to let all of them walk? Not a chance.

 

If they sell Sadio then yeah, I'm sure Mo will be allowed to see out the final year if he doesn't renew. I'm just saying I'd rather not do that and I'd give him an ultimatum, while extending Sadio if he's willing to.

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Enjoyed listening to that and agreed initially about not wanting to face them in the CL again, and about them having a greater aura in the competition that I think was alluded to in the discussion. 

 

But I've thought about it a bit since then, and I definitely would like to face them again (maybe not in the final, the jammy cunts). Let's not forget we have beaten them in a final before and we also battered them under Rafa. So they probably were due the win in 2018...and now we owe them one.

 

I wouldn't want any of our players mouthing off beforehand again though!

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For everyone who’s enjoyed the pod, can you spread the word beyond TLW please? If you think they’d like it, please share it with your family and friends. Cheers. 

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1 hour and 27 fucking minutes and nothing about the Charity Shield? I’ve been fuckin gulled!

 

Well done lads on doing a difficult podcast with a lot of emotional issues around the game and the changes (I agree) we need to make. I’m in a state of flux. I’ve no idea how I feel at this exact moment. It’s too soon. But I know I’m frustrated, but I’m also ok. I don’t want big change, but I think the team and the plan needs to pivot (not dramatically change) to a different focal plan. I tend to think like Paul that Sadio leaving throws up loads of positive possibilities as opposed to negatives. 
 

Onwards and upwards, but I’m still going to have a little cry. 

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On 31/05/2022 at 17:36, dave u said:

Klopp reviews it season by season. I've heard him say about making a commitment to eachother for the full season and then they review it from there. Not so much "you've got five years, you'll stay for five years".

 

You can't keep letting players leave for free. The occasional exceptional circumstance is fine, but we've got five players out of contract next summer. Are we going to let all of them walk? Not a chance.

 

If they sell Sadio then yeah, I'm sure Mo will be allowed to see out the final year if he doesn't renew. I'm just saying I'd rather not do that and I'd give him an ultimatum, while extending Sadio if he's willing to.

The signing on fees and pay rises when renewing a contract adds up, though.

 

Look at Diaz. 45 million and 55k per week. That's cheaper than giving Mo a new contract over 5 years.

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11 hours ago, m0e said:

The signing on fees and pay rises when renewing a contract adds up, though.

 

Look at Diaz. 45 million and 55k per week. That's cheaper than giving Mo a new contract over 5 years.

 

True, but we don't really know what the signing on fees are do we? I assume it varies depending on the individual and the circumstances.

 

In theory I agree, but I would have thought that when players are extending on a bigger deal, they aren't getting massive signing fees like when they first join. I might be wrong about that though.

 

And wasn't the talk on Mo that it was a two year extension? I'm sure I read that yesterday somewhere.

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3 hours ago, dave u said:

 

True, but we don't really know what the signing on fees are do we? I assume it varies depending on the individual and the circumstances.

 

In theory I agree, but I would have thought that when players are extending on a bigger deal, they aren't getting massive signing fees like when they first join. I might be wrong about that though.

 

And wasn't the talk on Mo that it was a two year extension? I'm sure I read that yesterday somewhere.

Typically there are signing on fees when renewing, and a massive cut goes to the agent too.

 

The negotiations are always based on market value and what they can get elsewhere an any given time. The cost of the entire contract is always factored in, and worked out annually.

 

If Mo were to sign a new deal next summer, he'd be forfeiting a massive signing on fee from another club. Why would Liverpool expect not to match this?

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