seamus o'lunacy

Rodgers on #LFC linked players: Yarmolenko "never heard of him"

i suppose it doesn't help when the manager says we've improved the squad and now we want to add to the first 11, identifying a left winger, then we are linked with shay given on loan, ilori a kid, and moses, who's played mainly on the right for chelsea, also on loan.

terrible isn't it, wanting signings that would walk into the first team and improve it.

who complained about countinho? Aside from inter fans with their own management for letting him go? The only complaints about Sturridge came on DURING the hours where we were losing an established world class centre forward that we really wanted to stay. Nobody complained when we signed him january as he was an improvement on having absolutely fucking nobody.

as dodgey as anton not hearing terry's abuse? As dodgey as luis not hearing evras south american abuse? the media reporting is certainly dodgey.

it was well known, even back before the disaster, that arrival times of supporters vary and that a large portion of the total admitted arrive in the last hour. Its mentioned in the green guide section 6. As is the guidance for the provision of sufficient number of turnstiles and number of persons per hour per turnstile. SWFC argued that since the game was all ticket (no cash transactions) they thought they could go over the 600person per turnstile per hour guide. the expectation to serve 1443 was more than double the guide. Arsenal provided similar information about fans arriving in the last 20 minutes to the taylor report. The final report makes recommendation that the total number of turnstiles should be sufficient in number to get all fans in, in the last hour. Although we take that shit more seriously i do wonder if we've learnt anything when you see graham mackrell get a gig picking suitable venues for some of footballs biggest fixtures.

there's an online thing but you have to pay about 5quid to look at old copies of the mirror, express, and a couple of others. ukpressonline - Home I already downloaded a load of them and hope to put them online for free at somepoint.

Taylor said "some with terrace tickets were allowed through turnstiles 1 to 16 and there would be other similar factors.." Such as, for example, people with stand tickets entering via the leppings lane turnstiles or gate c? The north stand turnstile count = the allocation. The west stand turnstile count = the allocation. The leppings lane stand (turnstile count under) hse count = the allocation. The print outs were presented at the inquiry, discussed at the inquiry as too was an explanation of how the hse made their assesment. With regard the latter statement. Its the 2nd time you've alluded there has been a denial. Perhaps you've confused what has been said in here or perhaps you'd care to share who exactly has denied something? A repeat of this circular discussion to date. Someone asked how many people could be held on the leppings lane terrace. I said 10'100 and that the number of people counted in = the allocation. I took 'yeah give or take a few hundred' as a dispute of that fact at best, and at worst, an insinuation of more entering than there should have been. Rather than concede the poor and casual choice of words, you've quibbled over the figures (two of which are considerably under and third 24 over) and cited taylor mentioning additional viarables but not the viarable equalisers. People with stand tickets entering via the gates or the leppings lane turnstiles. Which takes us back to the collective turnstile figures and the head count equals the allocation =24k. It really is indisputable but god loves a trier.

fanchester, all fans were counted in via the turnstile count mechanism. The accuracy of that count was put to the test by the hse. They tested the accuracy of all turnstiles(at our end) not just the leppings lane turnstiles. It was within a per cent. The percent difference was due to one faulty turnstile in the block of leppings lane turnstiles. That was acknowledged when giving their three figures for the leppings lane end. Taylor said it was possible fans could have gone onto the leppings lane from the west stand turnstiles. It was possible. It was also possible that fans with stand tickets came in through the leppings lane turnstiles and then made their way to their seats or onto the terrace and its possible fans with leppings lane tickets went into either seated section. All of these things are possible. The supportive evidence? The turnstile count showed the seated areas weren't over capacity they matched the allocation. The hse head count also showed those who entered the leppings lane matched the allocation. Which leads me to believe that although all manner of things were possible its more likely that those with north stand tickets went in the north stand, those with west stand tickets went there, and those with leppings lane tickets... Following their count the hse team came to the conclusion that it was unlikely that the numbers exceeded 10,124. That would be 'a give' of 24. Not hundreds. However, that was their absolute maximum figure. Their best figure saw the number who entered was under the 10'100 capacity. Those findings, and footage showing the other stands full, the wing pens empty all helped taylor to conclude there wasn't any substance to allegation of hundreds of ticketless fans. But you when Paul Middup says 500 plus were without tickets and that line being repeated over the years despite hse evidence, despite the turnstile count, such casual use of 'give or take a few hundred' is simply intolerable and incompatible with the actual evidence. Thats my point.

First of all, as i said, the methodology for the estimations is explained. The turnstiles opened half 11 and the cameras start rolling 10 minutes later. The turnstile accuracy is recorded as being within a percent. They used the figures from the turnstiles and then started the cctv count for their best 'estimate'. So unless "a few hundred" give or take sneeked in during this window of opportunity or there was any supportive evidence for taylors assertion, in the hundreds, give or take, then i could accept the statement but as there isn't, sorry, still no dice. Try quoting the relevant section 8.1.

memyselfandpie asked how many people could be accomodated in the leppings lane . I answered. I then told how the hse counted every single person in from cctv footage and that numbers in = allocation. You added to my comment “Yeah, give or take a couple of hundred max.” Sorry but no. Xerxes also commented “The very nature of ticketless fans is that they are difficult to count.” They counted each head, whether it was with a ticket or not, each head was counted whether it was through the turnstile, through gate c or came over the wall, not once, not twice, but on three occasions and the conclusion was collectively counted heads = the allocation. The cctv footage was quite clear as seen on the documentary last night. They also had a stab at counting heads within the pens, as shown, on the documentary last night. The methodology is there in the reports. With regards the pressure on the outer turnstile area. It really is simple maths. The hse calculated how many people could be accommodated in the areas, from turnstile to outer gate, both for the leppings lane and for the west stand upper and north stand. 4000 people in total. 24,000 people had to pass through the area to enter the ground. The leppings lane section could hold 1,800 and 10’100 had to go through that area. The last four semi-finals, 89, 88, 87, 81 all had problems getting fans in on time. 88 fans were still being admitted 15mins after kick off. 87 kick off was delayed. 81 again access problems, crushing inside and out and on that occasion the police blamed ticketless fans. The hse evidence wasn't disputed, its hard to dispute maths, syp accpeted it and even added weight to the argument, when they went to the high court with the evidence of the surveyor in order to reclaim costs from the club and the city council. Hopefully tomorrow we'll hear about the award split because its just another fact that has been kept hidden from the families.

There's every need. One more supporter is now aware of how many tickets were allocated for the leppings lane. And is aware that fans entering the leppings lane were counted and the reasons that led taylor to dismiss the allegation of hundreds of ticketless fans, as claimed by police federation officer paul middup on the news, an allegation that has persisted to this day. 1)SWFC turnstile count showed it was under capacity. The turnstile count could count and did count people climbing over the turnstile. 2)The hse said, having tested the accuaracy of the turnstile count, and having viewed cctv and dotted everyone entering from a number of cameras, at least 3 times, that their accuracy and best estimate was within 1% of the true figure. And their conclusion based on the figures and accuracy was the number of people entering matched the allocation of tickets given. 3)Taylor, as he mentioned in his report, added that the whopping gaps on either side of the wing pen. With the one nearest the control room half full and the one near the corner flag "1 6th full." as shown from cctv and still pictures, was also proof that hordes of ticketless fans was a myth. The figures and overall conclusion really cant be contested or even considered to be within the "nearest hundred". The best estimate was within a per cent of being bang on. Theirs and Taylors conclusion was the number that entered = the allocation. Finally just to add, what the HSE also discovered while investigating the leppings lane, is that the figure 10'100, was incorrectly calculated and the 10'100 figure was too high to begin with. In addition, given the lack of emergency exits, the incorrect position of barrier, and all manner of failures to comply with the green code, the central pen capacities were way over estimated by swfc and their safety officers. The hse only looked at the central pens. A quantity surveyor, submitted to the high court, that not only were the central pens capacities over estimated but so too were all the other pens. The figure invited should have been much lower than 10'100. Even if evenly distributed across the pens there was still a danger of overcrowding as spurs fans found out.

based on them blowing up the image from the different cctv footage, slowing the footage down and dotting every head they saw coming through the turnstiles, matching it with turnstiles admission clicks, doing the same with individuals climbing over the wall, and coming through gate c. The HSEs first figure was 9,267, their ‘best estimate’ was 9,734, and their third figure was a ‘maximum estimate’ of 10,124 Which led them to conclude that the number of people entering matched the allocation. Which led taylor to conclude the allegation of hundreds of ticketless fans was an absolute nonsense.

the leppings lane held approx 10'100. The HSE report stated it was ‘unlikely that the terrace exceeded 10,124’ and that ‘total admissions were approximately equal to the designated capacity of 10,100 people.' They counted everyone in from video footage at least 3 times. Those coming through the gate, those coming through the turnstiles, those climbing over the wall to escape the crush.

the police didnt question the ground being selected. Liverpool questioned the ground being selected. First time cos we were allocated the smaller end. The 2nd time cos of what happened the first time round - fans were injured and suffered crush injuries The police said they'd only police the game if the arrangements were the same. i.e us in the leppings lane. Manchester city and manchester united both offered to host the game at their grounds but the fa completely ignored our complaint, completely ignored alternative venues, and reselected Hillsborough.