Gianfranco Zola v Rafael Benitez

[Woo]

so why dont they post about the owners then?

 

What is there to say, or to even discuss about the owners?

[Ezekiel 25:17]

I see a few people are still using the 'rafa isn't the biggest problem' wank, agree or disagree with peoples opinions on Rafa, but don't be giving me this fucking shite. It's as tedious as anything beind posted about rafa, can you not make any defence for him to stay anymore, is that it ???.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Right, you've said this twice now, and twice I've pulled you up on it, but you've ignored it. This goes out to anyone else who also has similar views.

 

Do you seriously believe that people who want the manager gone, think he's the biggest problem at the club?

 

BECAUSE THEY FUCKING DON'T!

 

Every decent Liverpool fan knows that the owners are the biggest problem at the club. We all know it, regardless of our opinions on the manager. I'm sure 100% of the posters on here who want the manager gone agree with this.

 

It's down right insulting to even suggest that people would put their dislike of the manager before that of the owners.

 

I want the manager gone, but I'd much, much rather see the owners fuck off first.

 

There is no concievable defence of Rafas management, that's what it is, it must be, they try to detract from facts about how poor his management has been by telling us 'the owners are worse' etc, it's pathetic. Can they not see that ?? Keep Rafa in a job because the owners are cunts, it's the last stand for the apologista.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

And the point of this thread is......................

 

Fuck it, i'll bite.

 

Are you seriously trying to compare the managers of Liverpool and West Ham? Two managers who face completely different problems, who guided their squads to seperate halves of the table, manage squads whose values are vastly different and also have different expectations from their clubs?

 

Really? I bet this sounded good in your head and to your friends who use every opportunity possible to take a pop at Rafa. Is your hate for the manager superior to that of the owners? The real problem we face.

 

Did he say it was ?? has he inferred that at any point ?? what releavance does this have to his feelings on the manager ?? did you think this would sound good in your head to you and your friends ?? because you acknowledge the owners are a massive problem. If you want to defend Rafa defend him, tell us why he should still be the manager because to me it looks liek the argument is people want rafa to go because we finished 7th, played dire football all season and lost 19 games. You want him to stay because the onwers are cunts, or is that wrong ??

[Duff Man]

This thread sums up exactly why the FF is even shitter than usual at the moment.

[Xherdan]

What kind of sorry cunt negs someone for liking bacon?

 

 

Yossi Benayoun.

[coop]

The biggest problem currently at Liverpool is the owners, without a doubt.

 

We are currently £350m in debt with fuck all to show for it other then a few nice drawings of a new stadium.

 

Under the ownership of Hicks and Gillett i think it was reported over the weekend we have paid £85m in interest alone for the club to belong to the owners.

 

Imagine that money been spent on new players, i doubt very much we would be in this position.

 

They are prepared to put the future of the club at stake for their own personal gain and whilst they claim they want out and let someone else have the club they still want their large profit and do not fear the consequences of achieving this.

 

Just because i say Rafa is not the biggest problem at the club does not mean i don't think he is blameless, far from.

 

The last two seasons transfer activity have been a complete disaster and whilst Rafa can claim due to the money situation he needs to be perfect in the transfer window he also can not afford to get it so wrong with signings of Keane, Babel, Johnson and Aquilani who all come at a cost of over £60m.

 

For me the owners need to go and they need to go asap but so does Rafa as whilst i dread to go into another season worrying about the financial future of the club i also dread the thought of another season of negative defensive football which we will no doubt be served up.

 

The biggest difference for me is Rafa 'does' want to succeed at the club and by him doing this it obviously means the club would be winning trophies whereas the owners purely care about the 'brand' and how much they can exploit it.

[TheHitman]

There is no concievable defence of Rafas management, that's what it is, it must be, they try to detract from facts about how poor his management has been by telling us 'the owners are worse' etc, it's pathetic. Can they not see that ?? Keep Rafa in a job because the owners are cunts, it's the last stand for the apologista.

 

You seem to be implying that this is the main and only reason why some want to keep Rafa in a job. It is not, everyone acknowledges this season has been dire, it is Rafa's track record as a coach that leads me to believe this season was a one-off, he is a winner with a proven track record.

 

Like most fans I acknowledge there are a multitude of things that caused our poor season. It is pretty lazy on your part to group everyone as the same just because they are prepared to give the manager another chance.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

The biggest problem currently at Liverpool is the owners, without a doubt.

 

We are currently £350m in debt with fuck all to show for it other then a few nice drawings of a new stadium.

 

Under the ownership of Hicks and Gillett i think it was reported over the weekend we have paid £85m in interest alone for the club to belong to the owners.

 

Imagine that money been spent on new players, i doubt very much we would be in this position.

 

They are prepared to put the future of the club at stake for their own personal gain and whilst they claim they want out and let someone else have the club they still want their large profit and do not fear the consequences of achieving this.

 

Just because i say Rafa is not the biggest problem at the club does not mean i don't think he is blameless, far from.

 

The last two seasons transfer activity have been a complete disaster and whilst Rafa can claim due to the money situation he needs to be perfect in the transfer window he also can not afford to get it so wrong with signings of Keane, Babel, Johnson and Aquilani who all come at a cost of over £60m.

 

For me the owners need to go and they need to go asap but so does Rafa as whilst i dread to go into another season worrying about the financial future of the club i also dread the thought of another season of negative defensive football which we will no doubt be served up.

 

The biggest difference for me is Rafa 'does' want to succeed at the club and by him doing this it obviously means the club would be winning trophies whereas the owners purely care about the 'brand' and how much they can exploit it.

 

Is something everyone universally agrees with and I have seen not one post to make me think different. You can call Rafa all the fat cunts under the sun but unfortunately for the Pro Rafa this does not mean you have any less disdain for the owners.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Ezekiel 25:17

[Ezekiel 25:17]

You seem to be implying that this is the main and only reason why some want to keep Rafa in a job. It is not, everyone acknowledges this season has been dire, it is Rafa's track record as a coach that leads me to believe this season was a one-off, he is a winner with a proven track record.

 

Like most fans I acknowledge there are a multitude of things that caused our poor season. It is pretty lazy on your part to group everyone as the same just because they are prepared to give the manager another chance.

 

Well fair enough, if it's his track record etc and you still have faith in him then then all due respect and we'll agree to disagree. You say that I'm implying the owners are the biggest problem argument is the only reason you want him in a job, well why do people keep mentioning it then ?? it shouldn't factor whatsoever in his mangerial credentials.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

Some context is required here. Anyone with a brain knows the owners have to go, but it's not illegal for you to think the manager needs to go at the same time.

[Delmar]

Some context is required here. Anyone with a brain knows the owners have to go, but it's not illegal for you to think the manager needs to go at the same time.

 

Context means understanding that whatever the owners do affects everyone at the club, including the manager. Then taking that into account when forming opinions. Things do not happen in vacuum, you cannot judge separately people's actions at LFC.

[TheHitman]

Well fair enough, if it's his track record etc and you still have faith in him then then all due respect and we'll agree to disagree.You say that I'm implying the owners are the biggest problem argument is the only reason you want him in a job, well why do people keep mentioning it then ?? it shouldn't factor whatsoever in his mangerial credential.

 

There are probably fewer who want to keep him in a job due to the owners than who wanted him out for his alleged behaviour. It is only this season when the results have really warranted just cause for his position to be debated.

 

I would say from people I have spoken to and what I have read on this forum, more people wanted Rafa out due to his alleged behaviour more than the results. Think about how vocal some were who wanted him out last season, I don't know if you did but a good few were, all this while we were accruing a record points tally.

[Randy Marsh]

Keep Rafa in a job because the owners are cunts, it's the last stand for the apologista.

 

You seem to be implying that this is the main and only reason why some want to keep Rafa in a job. It is not, everyone acknowledges this season has been dire, it is Rafa's track record as a coach that leads me to believe this season was a one-off, he is a winner with a proven track record.

 

Like most fans I acknowledge there are a multitude of things that caused our poor season. It is pretty lazy on your part to group everyone as the same just because they are prepared to give the manager another chance.

 

Context means understanding that whatever the owners do affects everyone at the club, including the manager. Then taking that into account when forming opinions. Things do not happen in vacuum, you cannot judge separately people's actions at LFC.

 

These two responses hit the nail on the head for me.

 

Nobody I know or nobody who's opinions I have read has some unhealthy blind faith towards Rafa, yet that seems to be what most who now hate him think.

 

Everyone recognises this season hasn't been good enough.

 

Everyone recgonises that despite the megastorm of shit we've had over the club for the past 3 years and the minus investment of the past 2 years, 7th position is still not good enough by a long way.

 

Everyone recognises that Rafa Benitez has made mistakes.

 

Everyone recognises that we need to ditch the cautious approach when we are playing 75% of the division away from home and let teams worry about us, as our impressive home form backs up.

 

Why can't those who now hate him see that? Instead of labeling anyone with the nerve to still back him as being an "apologista" who obviously doesn't have the superior footballing knowledge to recognise his failings, try and look beyond the "apologista" bollocks and see that people havn't got blind faith.

 

It just happens that there are a few who also believe that the team's demise has tallied with the overall capitulation of our management off the field, and many don't see it as a coincidence that this woeful season has came after 4 transfer windows of making a profit.

 

I'm not defending this season at all, we have the players still to mount a better campaign than this and the football has generally been dire. But I also believe that everything that's gone on off the field has now filtered down in to the performances of the players and management. There is a massive cloud over the club now, the fans have had enough of all this bollocks these two yanks have put us through. The club has never been at a lower ebb than this and in my opinion that negativity has affected our performances.

 

There is no confidence, there is massive uncertainty and insecurity. The players are not stupid, they can see the squad hasn't been bolstered. They read the papers and hear the stories, what must they be thinking about the future of the club? What hope must they have of the club progressing when in all likelihood they know that the finances will not be there this summer to bring in the people we need? They'd be stupid not to consider their futures in our club's current state, because we are stood at the cliff edge now. If the right decisions are not made this summer then we will be going over that cliff edge.

 

In my opinion, I have seen enough of the manager to have confidence that should we get new owners and miraculously turn ourselves around this summer then he deserves a season to turn it around. Barring this season I have seen massive progress, and his trackrecord of winning a European Cup, FA Cup, Uefa Cup, and 2 La Liga titles still gives me hope that if the backing is in place this summer and the malaise and gloom over the club is lifted then he will be able to take us back in the right direction. If the ownership doesnt change then he should leave for his own sake because things will not get any better.

 

Probably wasting my time with this post and will most probably receive a 5 word piss taking response off someone anyway, but this whole subject get's my back up.

[zigackly]

Context means understanding that whatever the owners do affects everyone at the club, including the manager. Then taking that into account when forming opinions. Things do not happen in vacuum, you cannot judge separately people's actions at LFC.

 

So you're shifting the goalposts from "people who want Benitez out love the owners" to "people who want Benitez out can't put things into context"?

[silverlining]

Both clubs these two manage are up to their eyeballs in debt.

 

Both clubs have a reputation for playing football in the right way.

 

Both managers apparently undermined by senior figures above them at the club putting them in what would seem like untenable positions.

 

Both managers apparently have had their bosses bidding for players behind their backs that they may not want.

 

Both managers apparently have had their employers leaking stuff to the press to force them to quit.

 

One handles himself with class and decorum and gets on with the task of doing the right thing by his club until the end of the season and earns the respect of his players in doing so.

 

One plays political games basically to cement his own position first and foremost and when being linked to other jobs plays coy games with the media thus manipulating the supporters in the process.

 

One has hardly spent a penny in his time at the club and has tried his best with the resources at his disposal despite a disappointing season has his team trying to play the right way.

 

One has spent a fortune trying to create a winning team and has had a disappointing season has his team playing the worst football seen at the club in years.

 

Both managers will probably be leaving their respective clubs in the near future.

 

One will leave with class and dignity with his fans best wishes.

 

One will play the political game right until the end and will leave kicking and screaming about how hard done to he has been.

 

It isn't hard to guess who is who.

 

This is one of the worst posts I've ever read.

 

Very well done.

[Delmar]

So you're shifting the goalposts from "people who want Benitez out love the owners" to "people who want Benitez out can't put things into context"?

 

No, I do not mind people wanting Benitez out. I still myself do not see how he can continue, what good it would do to him or the club. I expect a "mutual" decision fairly soon.

 

I mind the atk type rumor based drivel, which is so dumb that a 7 year old would laugh reading it. I also mind people not putting things into context, not understanding that it is idiotic to demand success when everyone and their cousins know that the tools to succeed have not been provided.

[zigackly]

Double post.

Edited May 10, 2010 by zigackly

[zigackly]

I suppose my attitude personally towards Rafa is not to demand success but to punish failure. It's not the lack of a title which particularly concerns me, it's all the things he keeps doing wrong (in my opinion), which get right up my nose. I think he makes too many mistakes and doesn't learn enough from them.

[RobbieOR]

People have said on here over the weekend saying that they want Rafa gone as much as the owners.

[Guest TK-421]

Terrible read.

[dirty_sanchez]

Horrendous.

[Durango]

 

Every decent Liverpool fan knows that the owners are the biggest problem at the club. We all know it, regardless of our opinions on the manager. I'm sure 100% of the posters on here who want the manager gone agree with this.

 

It's down right insulting to even suggest that people would put their dislike of the manager before that of the owners.

 

I want the manager gone, but I'd much, much rather see the owners fuck off first.

I've ignored you?

 

Please enlighten me?

Read your last sentence and you'll find I pretty much said what you've said.

[Durango]

Right, you've said this twice now, and twice I've pulled you up on it, but you've ignored it. This goes out to anyone else who also has similar views.

 

Do you seriously believe that people who want the manager gone, think he's the biggest problem at the club?

 

BECAUSE THEY FUCKING DON'T!

 

Every decent Liverpool fan knows that the owners are the biggest problem at the club. We all know it, regardless of our opinions on the manager. I'm sure 100% of the posters on here who want the manager gone agree with this.

 

It's down right insulting to even suggest that people would put their dislike of the manager before that of the owners.

 

I want the manager gone, but I'd much, much rather see the owners fuck off first.

 

No.the likes of yoursef JG,Tom R,Ezekiel are vocal in wanting Benitez out (fair enough,you're entitled to your opinions).

 

The point I'm making (which seems to have gone over your head) in this, it's far easier to get rid of a Manager than Owners,so channel your bile towards the owners then direct all your venom at Benitez when they've gone

[Durango]

I see a few people are still using the 'rafa isn't the biggest problem' wank, agree or disagree with peoples opinions on Rafa, but don't be giving me this fucking shite. It's as tedious as anything beind posted about rafa, can you not make any defence for him to stay anymore, is that it ???.

Ok,we sack Benitez tomorrow,now YOU name another you we will attract with these pair of Cunts we have for owners.

 

Name names,I asked you last week to name names,I'm still waiting