Tories - convince me you're not evil

[Gym Beglin]

I'm not having the argument that Tories are evil, there has to be an ounce of humanity in the blood of the Tory MP's, the Tory Lords, and the Tory voters.

 

What is it that I'm missing that can make me feel that you're not just inhumane and hell-bent on destroying poor people?  You must have poor people you know and love, somewhere?  You must realise that poor people are the ones that do the work on the ground to enable the rich people to remain rich?  I don't think for a second you're THAT stupid to cut off the hand that feeds you.

 

So what it is I'm missing?  Give me some reasons for being optimistic about my family being able to survive in a world with a private health service, and with no way of affording to buy my own home.

 

Maybe it's because it's Monday that I'm feeling a bit deflated, but I look at my two little boys and I wonder what life will be like for them in 20 or 30 years, and I feel like crying a bit, there's just so much uncertainty.

 

 

So, I'm stopping hating the Tories.  I cannot put up with another 4 years, or 9 years, or Tory rule and me being totally miserable and living in fear of them and of the future, I can't do that anymore.  So I'm looking for glimpses of hope and logic amid the mess that is politics. 

 

I read this article and it made total sense to me.  We worker bees have to stop treating the Tories like they're this evil force, it just isn't helpful on any level, and it certainly isnt helpful to Labour politics to be seen calling them names and looking to 'smash the system'.  We need to return the Labour movement to being 'Tory-Lite', and set-it up to be a genuine competitor to them in terms of nicking some of those Tory voters back.  Every Facebook post about 'evil Osborne' or 'Tory wankers' that you re-share is harming the Labour movement in this country, and I for one am going to cull that negativity from my life.

 

http://labourlist.org/2015/10/the-tories-arent-evil-and-its-not-helpful-to-think-of-them-so/

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I'm not having the argument that Tories are evil

Looks like you've made your mind up. I'm out.

[Jairzinho]

Aren't you a UKIP voter, Funnneeeee?

[Section_31]

Like any party I imagine they're a broad church - although not as broad as others.

 

You've probably got traditional conservatives who believe in 'conservatism', i.e they like things to stay the way they are. Cricket on the village green, fish and chips on the pier, church on a Sunday types. 

 

You've got new Tories who just fall for the spiel about Labour ruining the economy and believe it's every man for themselves, they watch benefit street etc and believe that life here is too soft for a lot of people and they just like to see someone put the boot in. 

 

The top tier Tories though are nothing of the sort. Cameron is as much of a traditional Tory as Mandelson was a socialist. They're both neo Liberal through and through, they love and admire extreme wealth and are fully paid up members of the 'wealth trickles down, markets know best' brigade, and they view their respective rank and files with disdain. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

The system does need smashing though. It's not representative at all as the last election shown. Labour and the Tories shape democracy to suit their own party's chances of power. The career politicians treat the people like employees they don't give two shits about their quality of life it's all about dividends for the shareholders themselves and their chums. Our system is outdated it's been too fucked about with over the years it's just a boys club a cabal with big business. I read Caroline Lucas book and I felt like fucking puking reading about Westminster.

[Mook]

Some of them made some good music in the 70s & Rico helped me get a tenner of a Hoover a couple of weeks back.

 

Other than that you can count me out, cunts to a man.

[Gym Beglin]

Aren't you a UKIP voter, Funnneeeee?

 

No, was going to just to 'rattle' things.

 

But then, as it goes, was listening to a FT podcast last night and what they were talking about feeds into why I was contemplating a vote for UKIP. Polls in the run-up to elections.

 

To my mind it's always been crazy that opinion polls, strawman polls, all that bollocks is legal in the run-up to an election.  It definitely colours the way you vote, and in the case of the 2015 election the opinion polls were massively wrong.  They painted a tight campaign between the Tories and Labour, with UKIP just behind and capable of mopping up Labour and Lib-Dem votes and making real headway.  In short, I voted on the back of what the polls were saying, and so did a great many people in this country.  The media jumped on the polls, told you it was xyz, and so many people tried to vote 'tactically'.

 

Turns out the polls were very, very wrong.  So wrong in fact, that it begged the question of those polls being purposefully designed to give Labour an over-inflated ego, and to not look to change leadership.  After all, the people who did not vote for Labour did not do so because Miliband was a joke.  And, at the end of the day, people vote for people, they don't vote for parties and their politics.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/19/general-election-opinion-poll-failure-down-to-not-reaching-tory-voters

 

Here's a couple of comments from the comments section:

 

Also the phenomenon of 'shy Tories'. A lot of people are afraid to admit they vote Conservative because it's become an insult. Spiteful people on the left have driven their opposition underground

 

It's just not worth the aggro of admitting it to a lefty. They are nasty aggressive intolerant people. All of them.

 

Not all of them, but in general I agree. My whole life 'Tory' has been used as a slur the way 'Labour' never is

[Gym Beglin]

To me, you don't beat the Tories by taking them head-on.

 

You sidle-up to them, to their voters, and then you make your move.

 

All this people power bollocks is just that, utter bollocks and does nothing but stir people up and unsettle them for no reason whatsoever, because nothing, at all, will happen on the back of petitions or demonstrations in this country.

 

It's 2016, and the next GE is in 2020.  That's 4 years for Labour to get their shit in order and win an election in this country.  I'm willing to buy into the Tory mantra for the next four years and not be some prisoner-of-war hating the ordeal, hating my life and my society for the next 4 years, that's not a fucking option.  Come 2020 I will calmly put an 'x' in the Labour box, regardless of who is in charge and what the polls say.

 

There's more to this than hatred and millions of people feeling utterly despondent because we think Cameron is sub-human and incapable of caring for people.  

[littletedwest]

Yeah pal be honest think there is more chance on the ghost thread to be fair

[Hades]

They're either thick, evil or both. Thanks to Murdoch they can also now exist in their poisonous little bubble of Fox News, The Times and the rag and act as if they're being bullied when they're criticised for their treatment of the poor.

[Rico1304]

Mmmmwwwwwwwaaaaaaaahhhhhhhaaaaaaa

[Strontium]

They're either thick, evil or both. Thanks to Murdoch they can also now exist in their poisonous little bubble of Fox News, The Times and the rag and act as if they're being bullied when they're criticised for their treatment of the poor.

 

I'm curious what you mean by "treatment of the poor" in this context.

[Rotpeter]

I'm not having the argument that Tories are evil, there has to be an ounce of humanity in the blood of the Tory MP's, the Tory Lords, and the Tory voters.

Read Nietzche's ideas on master-slave morality (Beyond Good and Evil, On the Genealogy of Morals). It's the only way of looking at the situation that explains how they can live with themselves that I've come across.

[Jairzinho]

Read Nietzche's ideas on master-slave morality (Beyond Good and Evil, On the Genealogy of Morals). It's the only way of looking at the situation that explains how they can live with themselves that I've come across.

 

I'm not sure that a great deal of them will even think in terms of good and bad/evil. I think a lot of the Tory voters do, but they're generally less psychotic than the actual MPs. Many of which will do very little in the way of measuring values, self created or otherwise. This is probably only possible because they've successfully (as a collective) detached themselves from the results of their policies.

[Section_31]

Servitude is in our DNA. There was a bloke on my Facebook the other day who works for a council moaning about all the sympathy the junior doctors are getting because he's had his pay and conditions shit on for years. We know our place and we accept it. There's a story in the Express today about how the Queen's corgis get served steak on silver platters by a butler - I won't be holding my breath for any outrage. 

 

Bear in mind the only time we've ever seen the British public stand up and demand more for themselves was after the single most cataclysmic war the world has ever known reduced all our cities to rubble and there was lots of jobless blokes running around who knew how to use guns. Our history before and since has been one of doffing our cap to our betters and finding a quiet corner to die in. Bottoms up. 

[Jairzinho]

But how do some people shake it off?

[Mook]

There's a story in the Express today about how the Queen's corgis get served steak on silver platters by a butler - I won't be holding my breath for any outrage.

 

 

Steak and blow job day already?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Read Nietzche's ideas on master-slave morality (Beyond Good and Evil, On the Genealogy of Morals). It's the only way of looking at the situation that explains how they can live with themselves that I've come across.

Oh, blow it out your ass, Howard.

[Gym Beglin]

I'm more afraid of the Tory party than I am of terrorists.

 

How is it possible that most voters in the country have voted for them to lead us?

 

I have to be missing something?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I'm more afraid of the Tory party than I am of terrorists.

 

How is it possible that most voters in the country have voted for them to lead us?

 

I have to be missing something?

 

The political engagement of many people in this country, their level of knowledge, and their susceptibility to suggestion from the corporate media?

[Rotpeter]

I'm not sure that a great deal of them will even think in terms of good and bad/evil. I think a lot of the Tory voters do, but they're generally less psychotic than the actual MPs. Many of which will do very little in the way of measuring values, self created or otherwise. This is probably only possible because they've successfully (as a collective) detached themselves from the results of their policies.

Transcending the simplistic idea of the Good/Evil dichotomy is the crux of his ideas. Give it a read, it's really interesting idea (well, sort of). Especially, the role of religion in codifying an upside-down morality.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Don't read Nietzsche, for fuck sakes. It's like falling through a bottomless pit.

[Rotpeter]

Servitude is in our DNA. There was a bloke on my Facebook the other day who works for a council moaning about all the sympathy the junior doctors are getting because he's had his pay and conditions shit on for years. We know our place and we accept it. There's a story in the Express today about how the Queen's corgis get served steak on silver platters by a butler - I won't be holding my breath for any outrage. 

 

Bear in mind the only time we've ever seen the British public stand up and demand more for themselves was after the single most cataclysmic war the world has ever known reduced all our cities to rubble and there was lots of jobless blokes running around who knew how to use guns. Our history before and since has been one of doffing our cap to our betters and finding a quiet corner to die in. Bottoms up.

Nietzsche says its not your DNA but your culture that teaches you what values are important. The meek shall inherit the earth and all that i.e. it's a result of cultural christendom.

[Section_31]

Nietzsche inspired the idea of the waffen SS Superman, 6'2 fellas with square jaws and no fillings who frequently had their arses handed to them by half Irish simpletons from Philadelphia with the slouched demeanour of a half empty sack of spuds running around Bastogne with no shoes on. Nietzsche sucks balls.

 

[Rotpeter]

Don't read Nietzsche, for fuck sakes. It's like falling through a bottomless pit.

What would you recommend to get alternative viewpoints on Morality in this emerging post-christendom age?