The New Star Wars Films

[Juniper]

Definitely wasn’t a 10/10 but no where near as bad as others making out

I know Dan, just referencing the whole internet score conversation earlier in the thread.

 

I’d do a smiley but then I’d have to punch myself in the face.

[Red74]

In your opinion

You have seen the film?

[Tony Moanero]

Literally just came out of the cinema watching it.

 

Some bullet points.

1) Definitely needs a second viewing

2) Better than TFA but not as good as R1

3) First third wasn’t great but the last two were brilliant.

4) Un decided on the various plots and subplots throughout which is why a second viewing is a must.

5) That Superman Scene? I mean what the actual fuck. After she died I thought it was a nice way to say goodbye and then she fucking did that superman shit.

6) BB8 on an AT-ST fucking loved that

7) Salt Lake scenes were brilliant

8) fuck it it was a bloody great film

[PestiRed]

Just got back from watching it and enjoyed it. It’s too long and some parts are a bit daft - but it is a kid’s film. I liked Luke’s explanation of the force as balance and thought that Rey & Kylo Ren carried a lot of the film well

[Redder Lurtz]

Get a load of this bellend.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/star-wars-the-last-jedi-petition-film-series-canon-remove-story-bad-reviews-a8118676.html

[Numero Veinticinco]

Get a load of this bellend.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/star-wars-the-last-jedi-petition-film-series-canon-remove-story-bad-reviews-a8118676.html

Fucking oy.

[Guest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42424445

 

 

"This movie is an absolute insult to all Star Wars fans." "I'm going to go have a funeral for my childhood now." "This is NOT the Star Wars movie you are looking for!"

 

"This movie was AWESOME." "I was on the edge of my seat, I laughed, I cried." "I do understand the backlash, but I believe it's wrong. This is a great movie."

 

As those fan reviews attest, Star Wars: The Last Jedi has split opinion. To put it mildly.

 

The quotes are from user reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, where the debate on the film's merits has been raging since it was released last Thursday.

 

No other franchise means quite so much to so many. So when an instalment defies expectations in any way - expectations that were sky high - it was inevitable there would be a fallout.

 

 

On the one hand, there are diehard fans giving it low ratings who (to sum it up) believe The Last Jedi, its director Rian Johnson and film studio Disney have betrayed everything they have held dear for the past 40 years.

 

On the other, there are those who applaud the film's action and tone as well as its attempts to break with Star Wars tradition, taking the franchise into new territory.

 

Its audience score of 54% on Rotten Tomatoes (that's the proportion of users who have rated it 3.5/5 or higher) is the lowest of any Star Wars film, including the much-maligned prequels (The Phantom Menace has 59%).

 

But something else is going on too - while fans are divided, film critics were largely in agreement.

 

The LA Times called it the "first flat-out terrific" Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back. Time Out said it "dazzles like the sci-fi saga hasn't in decades". The Daily Telegraph said it is "Star Wars as you've never felt it".

 

That puts The Last Jedi at number 49 on Rotten Tomatoes' all-time list. And of the all-time top 100 films, The Last Jedi has by far the biggest gap between the critics' score and the audience score.

 

"It is unusual to have this much of a divide between critics and audience," says Helen O'Hara, editor-at-large at Empire magazine.

 

There have been more divisive films this year, she says - like the mystifying Mother!.

 

"But this is certainly one of the most divisive big films, and it slightly took me by surprise," she says. "I really didn't see that coming. I really didn't think fans would be unhappy with this film."

 

There are a few reasons why some fans feel affronted.

 

The Last Jedi didn't fulfil the fan theories that had been lovingly and obsessively plotted since The Force Awakens, such as Rey's parentage and the origins of Snoke.

 

As Ryan Parker pointed out in The Hollywood Reporter, YouTube videos piecing together supposed clues had up to three million views before the release of the latest film.

 

"Some theories became so ingrained in fan consciousness that when they didn't play out, many fans seem to feel like they were cheated out of something," he wrote.

 

 

Reading the fan reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, other gripes stand out.

 

"It's corny, stupid and politically correct," wrote one.

 

"So caught up in being diverse and political, it forgets to tell a coherent and compelling story," wrote another.

 

Empire's Helen O'Hara explains: "There were many more characters in this instalment that weren't white men, and that has been a shift that some fans have found unconsciously upsetting or alienating. They've felt excluded by that.

 

"And some men have openly complained that there are too many girls running around the Star Wars universe, which I personally think is crazy."

 

"This film plays with a lot of the Star Wars tropes and stereotypes," O'Hara says. "It does things that we think we know how they're going to go, but then they go in a completely different direction, and that's taken some people by surprise."

 

Some of the professional critics admired its attempt to reinvent the franchise.

 

"The best and most significant moments of this film are so explicitly progressive - so heretically violent towards the sacred texts of Hollywood's greatest saga - that they almost border on the surreal," Indiewire's David Ehrlich wrote.

 

Rian Johnson has "mounted a bonafide insurrection against an industry that's fuelled by nostalgia", wrote Ehrlich, adding: "If you really love something, you have to let it go."

 

Many fans are refusing to let it go, though.

 

An online petition calling for Disney to "re-make Episode VIII properly" has more than 35,000 signatures at the time of writing.

 

 

The Last Jedi isn't the first film to face a concerted effort to discredit it. Last year, FiveThirtyEight found that 12,000 people had rated the all-female Ghostbusters remake on IMDB before it had even come out - mostly men, mostly giving it low scores.

 

Just before The Last Jedi was released, Gizmodo analysed the films with the biggest differences between the critics' scores and fans' scores on Metacritic, another review aggregating site. Ghostbusters was top.

 

"In both The Last Jedi and the most recent Ghostbusters, there is a very small, very loud minority who are creating accounts specifically to give these films bad reviews," Helen O'Hara says.

 

"These people are judging the film based on their politics and based on the fact that they object to what they see as PC gone mad, and not based on the quality of the actual film, and I would hope critics are not doing that. This divide is not entirely organic."

 

O'Hara says the Ghostbusters campaign may have harmed that film's box office performance, but The Last Jedi is probably too big to be derailed. It took $450m (£336m) at worldwide box offices in its first weekend.

 

Some unhappy Star Wars fans have also used their platform to call for Rian Johnson to be removed from his duties directing a new, separate trilogy. But given The Last Jedi's box office performance, along with the many positive reactions, they're unlikely to get their wish.

 

"He would be relieved of future directing duties if the film flops badly," O'Hara says.

 

"I don't think there's any evidence of that happening. So, no, I don't think these guys do have the power that they think they do."

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Get a load of this bellend.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/star-wars-the-last-jedi-petition-film-series-canon-remove-story-bad-reviews-a8118676.html

I’m more concerned the reporter thinks it’s George Lucas’ latest work.

[Juniper]

I’m more concerned the reporter thinks it’s George Lucas’ latest work.

Unrelated but saw earlier that Lukes story in Episode 8 is loosely based off Lucas’ original idea for what became TFA.

 

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/20/star-wars-the-last-jedi-george-lucas-ideas-concept-art/

[Brownie]

Was there a similar reaction to TFA? I don’t think there was?

[Mak46137]

It appears the media are focusing on the obsessive fanboys rather than the discrepancies in plot, character history and motivations. Besides how could the critics be wrong it’s not like they got it wrong in 1977 or anything.

[Funkasy]

All the same excuses they had about ghostbusters. 9god going to tell us its a fantastic movie.

[Brownie]

At the end of the day a critic is just another person with an opinion.

[Pureblood]

Was there a similar reaction to TFA? I don’t think there was?

 

I don't recall the same heightened criticism.  A lot of people have taken this one personally.

 

Too derivative (TFA) vs too much of a departure from the past (TLJ).

 

Personally, I regret George Lucas selling the rights.  He is Star Wars, as far as I'm concerned.  I still maintain that the pod race is better than any scene from Episodes VII and VIII.  

[RedKnight]

That's a very contrary point of view.

[Pureblood]

You mean the last line?  Purely as an action/showpiece scene.  The acting in the Disney trilogy is a cut above, the action scenes don't compare favourably.  In my opinion.  

[Numero Veinticinco]

All the same excuses they had about ghostbusters. 9god going to tell us its a fantastic movie.

Yes, because I have a different opinion I must be a lunatic who liked the Ghostbusters reboot. You’ve managed to liken TLJ to a Ghostbuaters level film and those who like it to those who liked Ghostbusters in just two sentences. That’s just how clueless I am. What scathing blow to my credibility you’ve landed with that subtle web of words. Quite genius and not at all transparent.

 

At the end of the day a critic is just another person with an opinion.

I suppose that’s true. Although, it’s probably fair to say that professional movie critics like Kermode understand fiction, writing, and movie making quite well, and probably to a level the average joe doesn’t, a PhD thesis in fiction and a quarter of a century reviewing films for the likes of the New Statesman, BBC, and Observer probably gives him a decent platform from which to objectively judge a film. That doesn’t mean their view is any more valid than anybody else, but it is strange when people just dismiss their views because they’re critics.

[Brownie]

Yes, because I have a different opinion I must be a lunatic who liked the Ghostbusters reboot. You’ve managed to liken TLJ to a Ghostbuaters level film and those who like it to those who liked Ghostbusters in just two sentences. That’s just how clueless I am. What scathing blow to my credibility you’ve landed with that subtle web of words. Quite genius and not at all transparent.

 

 

I suppose that’s true. Although, it’s probably fair to say that professional movie critics like Kermode understand fiction, writing, and movie making quite well, and probably to a level the average joe doesn’t, a PhD thesis in fiction and a quarter of a century reviewing films for the likes of the New Statesman, BBC, and Observer probably gives him a decent platform from which to objectively judge a film. That doesn’t mean their view is any more valid than anybody else, but it is strange when people just dismiss their views because they’re critics.

Well I can only speak for myself but I wouldn’t dismiss their view. I wouldn’t read it as gospel either as they’re just a person with an opinion. The same goes for user ratings; i’m aware of them but i’ll still watch a film and form my own view. There are instances where general opnion of a film is poor but I actually love it.

 

I’m actually not someone who tends to go to the depths of critiquing cinematography, score etc I just watch a film and either enjoy it or not.

 

I think there’s a danger in over-estimating a film based on some aspects because at the end of the day it all comes down to entertainment and how it makes the viewer feel.

[Brownie]

I don't recall the same heightened criticism. A lot of people have taken this one personally.

 

That’s my recollection too, which pours water over the idea that people are moaning about this for any other reason than the fact that they didn’t enjoy it.

[Mak46137]

The problem the the critics by and large it seems they are judging it not as a moment of escapism but as a professional task. Production values, set pieces, lighting, method where as most of the people watching these ‘classic’ franchises want to be transported to a ‘universe’ they know and love. Going through the daily grind has to be made easier if you know somehow your heroes somehow win through don’t you think?

 

Also if the demographic aimed at was white guys and for 40 years those same white guys have invested time and money in collecting various incarnations of those films surely you have to expect problems when you kill off their heroes and replace them with poorly written and acted wider demographic appeasing characters and sole remaining character happens to be a matriarch who is played by someone who actually did die.

Crazy choices.

[Guest]

I don't recall the same heightened criticism.  A lot of people have taken this one personally.

 

Too derivative (TFA) vs too much of a departure from the past (TLJ).

 

Personally, I regret George Lucas selling the rights.  He is Star Wars, as far as I'm concerned.  I still maintain that the pod race is better than any scene from Episodes VII and VIII.  

I know Phantom Menace is frowned upon and it's far from a great film but it has it's moments. The fight scene between Darth Maul and the two Jedi is one of the standout scenes from Star Wars, in my opinion of course.

[Jockey]

It is lazy to think this film should be aimed at the 40 year old men, who watched the original. Fan boys are not rational - they seem to be incredibly selfish and self-centered on what they want being shown. 

 

The original Star Wars was aimed at children, and that is the same as this one. If you don't like that you seriously need to get out more and find something else in life to fill the void. Nothing wrong with valid criticism - I fucking hate the Lord of the Rings books, other people speak Elvish! Would be a tedious and boring world if we all thought the same. 

[Boss]

What i don't get is why they brought the old characters back in the first place. If you want to tell a new story, tell it with new characters. That way the people that love the originals don't get to see their favourite characters desecrated in the process.

 

But you know how it is. They needed the old characters to push the box office. They needed the fanboys money, but not the fanboys approval.

[Jose Jones]

The problem the the critics by and large it seems they are judging it not as a moment of escapism but as a professional task. Production values, set pieces, lighting, method where as most of the people watching these ‘classic’ franchises want to be transported to a ‘universe’ they know and love. Going through the daily grind has to be made easier if you know somehow your heroes somehow win through don’t you think?

 

Also if the demographic aimed at was white guys and for 40 years those same white guys have invested time and money in collecting various incarnations of those films surely you have to expect problems when you kill off their heroes and replace them with poorly written and acted wider demographic appeasing characters and sole remaining character happens to be a matriarch who is played by someone who actually did die.

Crazy choices.

Oh. Oh dear.

[Total Longo]

Some whopper of a "page" on facebook put up a massive spoiler yesterday, for which i want to hunt them down and kill them.

 

Mainly, as i am going to see this tomorrow. 

 

People who post spoilers need to die horrifically. 

 

And Mak46137's post has basically confirmed all of that, so good work there, you helmet.