Teachers to strike over violence

[King Emlyn]

Originally Posted by Hermes Bigger classes for those who are up to job. That's the problem with your whole philosophy on society Stu. Too willing to accomodate the underperformers and the shirkers. Shape up or ship out.

Get Maggie Hermes!

[Sutty13]

Originally Posted by Hermes Bigger classes for those who are up to job. That's the problem with your whole philosophy on society Stu. Too willing to accommodate the underperformers and the shirkers. Shape up or ship out.

Oh my God. My mind has just boggled. I actually felt it happen.


































































































































































Oh my God.

[Stu Monty]

Originally Posted by Hermes Bigger classes for those who are up to job. That's the problem with your whole philosophy on society Stu. Too willing to accommodate the underperformers and the shirkers. Shape up or ship out.

That's the problem with your philosophy on society Hermes, it's half cooked and myopic. I wouldn't dream of claiming I knew the answer to the problems in education but I'd imagine doubling class sizes and moving toward less specialised teachers wouldn't be the way forward.

[Section_31]

Teachers are the very bottom of the pile when blame is being handed out for the general shitness of the education system.

The government are the top, followed by the parents and then the kids.

Stripping teachers of effectively all powers has castrated them in front of the kids. How often do teachers lose their jobs in this country for losing their rag after being spat at or having their hair pulled?

My last job involved raising money for an 'inclusion programme' for kids who'd been excluded from school and its a massive business. Acting classes and DJ'ing lessons for little bastards who'd been kicked out for knocking shit out of teachers and kids.

A curriculum that devotes huge amounts of time and money to 'citizenship' classes and gender studies, yet produces kids en mass who can't even use a calculator and think that Karl Marx was a comedian.

The problems in the education system are reflective of our society in general, the good people have had their hands tied, and the arseholes are all too easily forgiven. Liberalism rules unchecked, and Rome is burning.

[andymc]

Put simply schools like this need good leadership, and I'm sorry but that comes from the headteacher, if you can't even get the staff on your side you won't fuckin get the kids on side. I work at a secondary school in London and our behaviour is poor due to the lack of leadership and personal responsibility taken by people who allow the kids to get away with murder. The fact is everyone remembers their good teachers at school and for me they were always the ones who were strict with you but would also talk things through and listen to you when there was a problem.

The blame for me falls onto different groups, one is the parents who refuse to believe that their darling little angel would ever dare tell you to fuck off, or as has happened at my school previously parents accusing you of victimising their kids cos of their ethnic background (which is just giving their kids an excuse to have a chip on their shoulder!). I also blame the likes of Ofsted who treat schools with high exclusion rates like the retard of the class without looking at other factors like the social intake, thus tying the hands of headteachers who literally have to wait for kid to set fire to the place before they throw them out.

It's a shame we get faced with so many problems day in day out os it is a great career and very rewarding when you get it right, but the schools who need the inspiring teachers can never hold onto them for very long because of the way they are run.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by andymc Put simply schools like this need good leadership, and I'm sorry but that comes from the headteacher, if you can't even get the staff on your side you won't fuckin get the kids on side. I work at a secondary school in London and our behaviour is poor due to the lack of leadership and personal responsibility taken by people who allow the kids to get away with murder. The fact is everyone remembers their good teachers at school and for me they were always the ones who were strict with you but would also talk things through and listen to you when there was a problem. The blame for me falls onto different groups, one is the parents who refuse to believe that their darling little angel would ever dare tell you to fuck off, or as has happened at my school previously parents accusing you of victimising their kids cos of their ethnic background (which is just giving their kids an excuse to have a chip on their shoulder!). I also blame the likes of Ofsted who treat schools with high exclusion rates like the retard of the class without looking at other factors like the social intake, thus tying the hands of headteachers who literally have to wait for kid to set fire to the place before they throw them out. It's a shame we get faced with so many problems day in day out os it is a great career and very rewarding when you get it right, but the schools who need the inspiring teachers can never hold onto them for very long because of the way they are run.

A lot of truth in that, Andy. However, you're wrong about the Ofsted myth. There's a school round here that was known as the smackhead school fifteen years ago. The head turned into one of the best schools in the country (judged to be outstanding in its last two inspections) by leading from the front. I have seen her in action and it is a sight to behold. She is the straightest talking person I have ever encountered, with absolutely no sides to her and completely devoted to improving the lives and education of young people. She excludes kids on a daily basis for even trivial levels of poor behaviour and she's actually proud of the fact. No-one can question her, because it works. When parents come in and want to shout the odds, she gives it straight back to them. Failing that, she offers them a transfer form. Strangely, very few of them accept as they know how good the place is. Her staff are so appreciative that they agreed to opt out of PPA in order to allow her to afford to maintain slightly higher levels of staffing. She makes them work their arses off, but they do it because of what she gives them, which is a phenomenal working environment.

[Paul]

On the original story, I've now received the insider's account. There have been no resignations without other jobs to go to. The issue is that a new head has come in to a challenging school and decided to blame the staff, rather than support them. Strange that in the two examples I've cited here, the Hermes "speaking from a position of supreme ignorance" approach has resolutely failed, but the "strong leader who both supports staff and raises expectations" approach succeeds. But then Hermes knew he was talking shite, anyway; he just wanted to wind up the teachers.

[DJLJ]

Originally Posted by Hermes Bigger classes for those who are up to job. That's the problem with your whole philosophy on society Stu. Too willing to accommodate the underperformers and the shirkers. Shape up or ship out.

I went to see my wifes sisters daughter today, she is in a boarding school in the northern part of China. They are allowed to talk to their parents for 50 minutes every 2 weeks, and allowed to go back home 1 day each month. Their school day start at 6 am and finish at 8 pm. From 5 am to 6 am they have their breakfast and from 8 to 9 they have their dinner. The school is a primary school and they are finishing on wednesday. They then have 1 month off, before it is back to 10 months of study.
As for your point on bigger classes. The same physical size classroom that was in the school I went to, which had 28 pupils, and I felt was a little crammed, houses 70 pupils here. The desks are 70 cm wide. It works here, but by god would I have hated it.

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Paul On the original story, I've now received the insider's account. There have been no resignations without other jobs to go to. The issue is that a new head has come in to a challenging school and decided to blame the staff, rather than support them. Strange that in the two examples I've cited here, the Hermes "speaking from a position of supreme ignorance" approach has resolutely failed, but the "strong leader who both supports staff and raises expectations" approach succeeds. But then Hermes knew he was talking shite, anyway; he just wanted to wind up the teachers.

Winding up teachers was not my intention, getting them to do the job that they are paid for was. Would you employ a man to drive a bus if he couldn't drive? Controlling the class they are employed to teach is part of the job. If you think it isn't Paul then you are in the wrong profession.

[Unrighteous]

A mate teaches at a school for extremely naughty teens... Just emailed him to see wtf this is all about hehe.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Hermes Winding up teachers was not my intention, getting them to do the job that they are paid for was. Would you employ a man to drive a bus if he couldn't drive? Controlling the class they are employed to teach is part of the job. If you think it isn't Paul then you are in the wrong profession.

Well if it wasn't a wind up, I'm surprised at how brainless your point was Hermes. If you think the first step towards resolving someone's inability to do a job is dismissal, then you're a halfwit. People need extensive support and training over a significant period of time. If that has been offered but the deficiencies continue to have a significantly detrimental effect on the education of children, then dismissal should be an option. However, as in any job, it should be the final one.

[cracker]

As a teacher of almost 30 years standing who is now a Head of a Maths department in what might be termed a challenging school I find Hermes' contribution to this thread unbelievable.

Not trying to wind teachers up!!! Well reading what you wrote has wound me up big style. you do not have a clue and i won't even begin to answer the rubbish you have written.

Your opinion seems to be that problems in school = teachers fault - Not the kids? Not parents? Not society? Not the mentality got from the tabloid press? Not the government? Just teachers. yeah right!!!

Tell you what mate try going into a school and seeing what it is like before you tell us who have a daily struggle how to do the job. Your suggestions on how to deal with the bad ones made me laugh and would not have a hope in hell of working where I am.

Truth is that it is complex issue and there are no easy solutions. And at that point I'll stop typing as if I don't my post would probably end up about 5 pages in itself as there is so much i could say on this subject given that it is something I deal with every working day of my life.

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by cracker As a teacher of almost 30 years standing who is now a Head of a Maths department in what might be termed a challenging school I find Hermes' contribution to this thread unbelievable. Not trying to wind teachers up!!! Well reading what you wrote has wound me up big style. you do not have a clue and i won't even begin to answer the rubbish you have written. Your opinion seems to be that problems in school = teachers fault - Not the kids? Not parents? Not society? Not the mentality got from the tabloid press? Not the government? Just teachers. yeah right!!! Tell you what mate try going into a school and seeing what it is like before you tell us who have a daily struggle how to do the job. Your suggestions on how to deal with the bad ones made me laugh and would not have a hope in hell of working where I am. Truth is that it is complex issue and there are no easy solutions. And at that point I'll stop typing as if I don't my post would probably end up about 5 pages in itself as there is so much i could say on this subject given that it is something I deal with every working day of my life.

A typical response. Blaming everybody and everything. You are the teacher FFS, not the whole host of others you are trying to implicate. Take responsibility for what goes on in your own classroom, that would be a start.

[Moschops II]

Surely people know by now that trying to talk to Hermes on any kind of serious basis is pointless - whether he's on an unfunny full-time wind-up or he actually believes what he comes out with, no-one's ever going to get any kind of admission from him that he's wrong.