Do you think Robbie Keane is treated differently to Kuyt. Its fair to say Keane hasnt settled in as we hoped but every game he seems to give his all. When people slag Kuyt off (and im not his greatest fan) they say he works hard for the team, never gives up etc etc. For me Robbie Keane does that too, but never gets any leeway from Rafa.
For me the two players have both tried hard, both are missing chances yet Kuyt never misses a single minute of any game no matter how poorly he plays, whilst Keane is omitted from the squad yesterday with little explanation.
Robbie Keane has at least proved he can do it in the Premiership (albeit for a different club) yet Kuyt consistenly underperforms.
I feel sorry for Keane and am getting fed up with the way Rafa stands by Kuyt no matter what.
I know this may sound harsh and im probably going to getr slated but I dont care, Dirk is a dutch Robbie Savage he runs around for 90 minutes and has no end product, simple as.
He also hasnt scored for over 2 months.
He was no better than Keane the other night against the shite but yet he still plays the full 90 minutes and also played all game yesterday and he was fucking wank again, As long as we have him in the side playing in a position which he cant fulfill we wont win anything.
I think we fucked up not buying Simao a few years back, he was exactly what we needed at the time and he still quality now, shown that back in November in the CL game when we played Atletico over the two games.
Bit of a mad comparison until Rafa starts using Keane on the right wing Kuyt just needs a rest. Keane will come good if he gets chance to N'gog getting picked ahead of him isnt gonna help.
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Dirk's done more for us that Keane ever will, even if Robbie is more tehinacally gifted.
Keane has hardly been given a chance to do so and therein lies the problem. I don't think there has been a player ever bought for £20m and totally bombed out by the manager that bought him within 6 months. This is the same manager who perservered through 26 games of Crouch not scoring, and probably one of the worst runs of poor form by any player (Dirk Kuyt) last season.
All players deserve that, and Rafa should be applauded for sticking by Crouch and Kuyt through difficult times especially as one was a new player at the time.
Yesterday putting David N-Gog in ahead of Keane was two fingers to Parry but if I owned the club I'd want to know why a manager who wants total transfer control should deserve it after the Alonso/Barry debacle and now the Keane saga.
Sorry about the heated post but I have just been listening to a 5-Live debate about this and its difficult to defend the manager here. Keane has hardly even played in his favoured deep position, and one has to question why we would have needed Keane when we had Gerrard there anyway. But we got him and now we use the most prolific league scorer of the last 5 years as back up to David N-Gog!
Stan Collymore once attacked Evans saying he bought him without knowing what to do with him, well Stan you scored shit loads of goals in your first season and created a lethal partnership with Fowler so it wasn't to no avail especially given we only lost £1m on him. This is different, this IS an example of buying someone literally thinking "fuck what have I done" after 5 games. Either or it's a "I really wanted Barry instead" but then after what we have seen from Xabi this season I doubt anyone can make that cry.
I am scratching my head because I have never seen anything like what is happening to Keane, it doesn't make sense at all. The question about Keane v Kuyt is moot as the manager rates Kuyt better but the stats tell a different story.
Keane thinks he shjould be in the team and gets a titty on. I've seen him miss about 5 open goals. He points he complains, he says fuck off but he mostly misses sitters. Kuyt works hard (yes we know) scores some important goals even though he's on the right, supports his team mates non stop and cost half of what keane cost.
If Keane buckles down, shuts up, works hard and stops missing sitters - Kuyt has missed but not as many absolute nailed on open just blow it in goals - then maybe he'll have a chance. Kuyt is someone you can trust to be there for you, with Keane he'd probably be complaining when a rebound took the ball back into his area of the field.
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The two players are played in totally different positions and offer a totally different option to each other. Keane could not perform the role that Kuyt fills down the right. Every day he is looking a worse and worse buy. Having said that, maybe Rafa dropped Keane like everyone seems to think, or maybe he gave him the night off to take him out of the firing line and give him the chance to regroup and mentally sort himself out. Who knows.
I was talking to a Spurs fan earlier about Keane and was told the consensus on him amongst their fans was that he can come up with some sublime goals but takes too many chances to score them and has a general moaning attitude when things aren't going right for him. Does that sounds familiar? It wasn't something I'd noticed about him before we bought him, but it struck a chord from what I've seen of him so far.
Maybe the main difference between Keane and Kuyt is that Keane moans more and sometimes goes missing on the pitch. Neither has looked consistent enough to justify a first team place for us in my opinion. I think we also overpaid for Keane and the price tag hasn't done him any favours. All in all Keane strikes me as a bit of a busted flush as he was brought in to be an instant solution on the pitch and has not proved to be at all. Maybe if he knuckled down and got on with it more I would want to give him more time, but I think in retrospect his transfer was a mistake. We can't afford passengers this year if we're going for a league title, and whereas Kuyt has shown in the past that he can fulfill a role in the team ono the right of the three behind Torres, Keane hasn't justified his selection enough yet.
In fairness Kuyt is badly out of form at the moment, and maybe it's time to give Yossi a run on that side and tell him if he wants to make the place his own all he has to do is keep the shape of the team better and not keep coming inside all the time and holding on to the ball too long.
So thats almost 3/4 of his goals against teams not actually known for their great defending.
Personally I think it tells a story.
In Kuyts last 55 games (48 starts) he has only managed to score in 6 of them and honestly from an attacking player thats just piss poor.
Another interesting point is that Kuyt has only managed to score in one PL game at Anfield since 21st of April 2007 and that was his brace against Wigan this season.
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"It is the nature of desire not to be satisfied, and most men live only for the gratification of it." - Aristotle
In fairness Kuyt is badly out of form at the moment, and maybe it's time to give Yossi a run on that side and tell him if he wants to make the place his own all he has to do is keep the shape of the team better and not keep coming inside all the time and holding on to the ball too long.
if Kuyts time = 100%, what percentage has he actually been "on form"? Maybe 20%? Or even less? I love the man that is Kuyt and I think he has done well in patches with us. But if players see some players being given more of a rub of the green than others it will cause unrest. Lets also remember that Robbie's best mates at the club are our two best players.
How many absolutely vital goals has he scored in Europe, Code? You're taking a very one-eyed look at him and I would have thought for someone who is interested in statistics you would be less disposed to skewing the data to make him look worse than he is. Like I said above, he is badly off form at the moment and should perhaps be given more of a fight for his place, but to ignore the contribution he has made in the past is a little bit intellectually dishonest.
ToxtethTerror I wont qoute you long post above, but I disagree with almost everything you wrote.
Kenae has got 16 start in the PL already and he has been shite in almost every single one of them.
He has been given loads of chances and proved time and time again that he offers fuck all.
One more thing which has started to annoy me a bit is this about his preferred role being a withdrawn striker, he offers nothing in that role, not one single one of his abilities is suited to such a role and he has never been good in such a role.
Please explain why and how you think otherwise apart from the obvious one that you believe in the myth that has been allowed to spread around on every Liverpool forum out there, the myth about Keane the great second striker.
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"It is the nature of desire not to be satisfied, and most men live only for the gratification of it." - Aristotle
if Kuyts time = 100%, what percentage has he actually been "on form"? Maybe 20%? Or even less? I love the man that is Kuyt and I think he has done well in patches with us. But if players see some players being given more of a rub of the green than others it will cause unrest. Lets also remember that Robbie's best mates at the club are our two best players.
I'd hope they would be professional enough to hold their hands up and say "it's just not working, keep in touch mate, but see you later".
Keane thinks he shjould be in the team and gets a titty on. I've seen him miss about 5 open goals. He points he complains, he says fuck off but he mostly misses sitters. Kuyt works hard (yes we know) scores some important goals even though he's on the right, supports his team mates non stop and cost half of what keane cost.
If Keane buckles down, shuts up, works hard and stops missing sitters - Kuyt has missed but not as many absolute nailed on open just blow it in goals - then maybe he'll have a chance. Kuyt is someone you can trust to be there for you, with Keane he'd probably be complaining when a rebound took the ball back into his area of the field.
Keane buckled down, played really well against bolton and arsenal, scored 3 in 2 games and then didnt play for 3 games, if thats not trying to fuck a player up and drive him out of the club I dont know what is.
Hes been treated terrible by Rafa, he needs to swallow his pride stop being a stubborn twat and start giving him a run of games and get behind him rather than treat him like a fucking chess piece, our team is far better with Robbie Keane in it than not... if you think thats debatable then look at our results the last few weeks when he hasnt been playing.
Please explain why and how you think otherwise apart from the obvious one that you believe in the myth that has been allowed to spread around on every Liverpool forum out there, the myth about Keane the great second striker.
What position had he been playing for Tottenham that has seen him score more league goals than another PL player these past 5 years? He certainly didn't play lone front man, or ahead of Berbatov.
16 starts here means nothing, its obvious we as a team have not got the best out of him. That doesn't make Keane a bad player. As someone else said above, he scored and played well at Arsenal and then at Bolton - what happened in the game after that? A lot of football is psychological and that kind of treatment is a head wreck and out of order.
Keane buckled down, played really well against bolton and arsenal, scored 3 in 2 games and then didnt play for 3 games, if thats not trying to fuck a player up and drive him out of the club I dont know what is.
Hes been treated terrible by Rafa, he needs to swallow his pride stop being a stubborn twat and start giving him a run of games and get behind him rather than treat him like a fucking chess piece, our team is far better with Robbie Keane in it than not... if you think thats debatable then look at our results the last few weeks when he hasnt been playing.
I don't agree - now that Torres is back Keane won't get a look in and rightly so. His performances haven't been good enough, clearly something has gone wrong in the plan surrounding his signing and he doesn't justify a starting place in our strongest eleven.
It is simple for me in the Keane v Kuyt debate Torres and Gerrard are the best combination we have up front on all known form for Liverpool Kuyt has been able to get as many games as he has because of his work rate out on the right
Keane as looked a bit lost for me not knowing what it is he should be doing in the Liverpool System with oly one position available to Keane to play in. this is the one that Gerrard has made his own and that makes Keane a luxury that we cant accomodate in the team when Torres is fit and as is Rafa's way when he sees something wrong or not working he acts and Keane is not long to be a Red me thinks
I don't agree - now that Torres is back Keane won't get a look in and rightly so. His performances haven't been good enough, clearly something has gone wrong in the plan surrounding his signing and he doesn't justify a starting place in our strongest eleven.
Kuyt does ??
Torres and Keane could be a quality duo, even Rush and King Kenny backed that up , they just havent had enough games togeather.
It needs a chance, you dont score over 100 League goals and become a bad player over night, the bad player you see before your eyes is courtesy of Rafa, its as simple as that.
Im not saying he hasnt played bad because he have but Rafa should show more faith in him than he has done, he gave Crouch and Dirk time, why not Keane ??
How many absolutely vital goals has he scored in Europe, Code? You're taking a very one-eyed look at him and I would have thought for someone who is interested in statistics you would be less disposed to skewing the data to make him look worse than he is. Like I said above, he is badly off form at the moment and should perhaps be given more of a fight for his place, but to ignore the contribution he has made in the past is a little bit intellectually dishonest.
It depends how you look at it but if you say 1 goal you are not far off.
06/07:
11 matches - 1 goal
Milan final 2-1, scored 1 goal.
07/08:
12 matches - 7 goals
Toulouse H 4-0, scored 2 goals.
Porto A 1-1, scored 1 goal.
Marseille A 0-4, scored 1 goal.
Inter H 2-0, scored 1 goal.
Arsenal A 1-1, scored 1 goal.
Chelsea H 1-1, scored 1 goal.
08/09:
7 matches - 2 goals Standard Liege H 1-0, scored 1 goal., the only important goal this season.
PSV H 3-1, scored 1 goal.
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"It is the nature of desire not to be satisfied, and most men live only for the gratification of it." - Aristotle
