Looks like Barry deal off! How did we end up with them...

[robslappa]

Originally Posted by hamstrung

You've changed the the point of discussion Rebel.

You suggested no other club would provide the same transfer funds as Rafa has had over the last 4 years (not that they actually have - most haven't needed to). Its completely obvious (to me at least) that there are a number of clubs who, if in the same position we were 4 years ago, would give their manager £20m a season with which to rebuild.

I really don't see how that can be argued? £20M a season isn't a vast sum of money for most big champions league clubs, most of whom have been bigger spenders in the past than us.

That really is it from me, now. I am boring myself.

If you include the spaces, that's actually 11 lines. Consider yourself repped young man for a worthwhile contribution.

[Rex Banner]

If it means getting another attacking player then fine, if it means we don't get Barry or anyone else good then boourns

[Catch22]

Originally Posted by rebel23

i'm not getting into this argument but United haven't spend wildly more than us over the last 4 years and their manager has been there 20 years and has won 10 titles, their stadium is bigger and their turnover is higher

United's stadium & turnover reflects (thru very gritted teeth) very well on how their club has been run off the field.
You are right that they can afford their extra spending. But it is at least approx £20m/year more which may or may not be 'wildly' but please don't demean yourself by claiming we outspend the Mancs.

We have had DM/Parry/Yanks.
Our non-CL turnover is no greater than Newc (larger stadium) or Spurs (London prices, London corporate spending).

That we have competed as well in the last few years is partly Gerr/Carra thru the ranks, partly our fans (the benefit of not having corporate tickets- see Arse/Chavs) but mainly Rafa doing so outstandingly in the competiton which has highest marginal value per success.
(Key here is that 50% of your country's revenue is divided amongst all entrants depending on how far each team progresses. If we go out early Arse/Mancs/Chavs share the money. This is why Rangers going out is so bad for them as it double Celtic's money at a stroke)

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by dennis tooth

They are not us though and we are not them. We are Liverpool and we back our managers. The fact that he has been there 20 years, being backed to the hilt is testament to the fact that the owners should back our manager.

Also want to say that when Fergie wants rid of RVN or Jap Stam and bring in some undderated, untried or unknown replacement, then his chairmen would back him up.

if Rafa can get rid of Alonso i'd think (HOPE) the owners would support it and then we can have Barry but there's no takers

[t1971]

Im goign to wait and see if there is any truth in this story and see what the reasons are behind it before shouting about it. Might not be true, might be a tactic. No pioint getting worked up about it yet

[dennis tooth]

Milan Chasing Benitez : Kop-TV

[Owen]

Originally Posted by robslappa

If you include the spaces, that's actually 11 lines. Consider yourself repped young man for a worthwhile contribution.

Haha, there was too much for me to be bothered reading there.

[hamstrung]

Originally Posted by robslappa

If you include the spaces, that's actually 11 lines. Consider yourself repped young man for a worthwhile contribution.

Bloody hell. 11 lines. I need a lie down.

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by dennis tooth

Milan Chasing Benitez : Kop-TV

that source is a load of crap and not even a proper media source (caughtoffside is some stupid blog)

[dennis tooth]

I know. It's only beginning, he wouldn't go though not after the comment about us fans and all that.

[dave u]

Originally Posted by Glen C

Those reasons being?

Well in my opinion....

He isn't worth £18m. We originally bid £10m. Paying nearly double that doesn't make sense.

Centre midfield is the last position we need to spend £18m on.

Alonso is better than Barry, but we may have to sell him to finance the deal. And up to now, Arsenal are the only seriously interested party.

I'd rather any money we have, and any money we raise through further sales (Voronin, Pennant etc) is used on a position we need to strengthen ie left sided attacking player.

[05 Milan]

Originally Posted by dave u

Well in my opinion....

He isn't worth £18m. We originally bid £10m. Paying nearly double that doesn't make sense.

Centre midfield is the last position we need to spend £18m on.

Alonso is better than Barry, but we may have to sell him to finance the deal. And up to now, Arsenal are the only seriously interested party.

I'd rather any money we have, and any money we raise through further sales (Voronin, Pennant etc) is used on a position we need to strengthen ie left sided attacking player.

Agreed. What's the net spend so far, 8m or something? There should be at least 10-12 m available without sales, and shifting Pennant and Voronin should in principle finance a deal for a decent wide player.

[navbasi]

Originally Posted by Red Nick

We can probably get Barry for 9m in Jan, especially if he signs a pre-contract with us

He could only sign a pre-contract with us in Jan 2010 when he would be into the last 6 months of his contract.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by dave u

Well in my opinion....

He isn't worth £18m. We originally bid £10m. Paying nearly double that doesn't make sense.

Centre midfield is the last position we need to spend £18m on.

Alonso is better than Barry, but we may have to sell him to finance the deal. And up to now, Arsenal are the only seriously interested party.

I'd rather any money we have, and any money we raise through further sales (Voronin, Pennant etc) is used on a position we need to strengthen ie left sided attacking player.

But should the club back the manager's decisions or not? That is the point many people are making on here.

I think it's a bit unfair for anyone to support our schyster owners on this just because of their personal feelings on player A or B.

If the money is not there, then it's not there and it's tough on Rafa (in the current climate).
But is is healthy to have owners, especially like them two, who interfere on the football side of things?

[el-jazz]

Originally Posted by coop

A lot of people agreeing with the yanks is probably due to it being Barry but what if the deal to sign a player of the ilk of Silva was being delayed because the owners refused to give Rafa the cash.

Would the same people have the same view as now.

I totally agree with you, Coops.

We should rather look at the principle, not Barry.

IMO this is a decision I entirely are backing Rafa to take. If Barry doesn't deliver, it's Rafa's mistake. I trust him and it's sad so see so many people on here who indirectly supports the owners on this transfer.

[el-jazz]

Originally Posted by coop

A lot of people agreeing with the yanks is probably due to it being Barry but what if the deal to sign a player of the ilk of Silva was being delayed because the owners refused to give Rafa the cash.

Would the same people have the same view as now.

I totally agree with you, Coops.

We should rather look at the principle, not Barry.

IMO this is a decision I entirely are backing Rafa to take. If Barry doesn't deliver, it's Rafa's mistake. I trust him and it's sad so see so many people on here who indirectly supports the owners on this transfer.

[Manny]

This is mixed news to me.

I like Barry and think he'd improve us, and it's disappointing to miss out on a good player.

I love Alonso to pieces, and am absolutely made up he's staying, even more so if he can kick on with his preseason form.

It's extremely worrying that the "owners" are interfering with transfers. Whether you rate Barry or not, and whatever your stance in the endless Alonso vs Barry debate, H&G have pulled the plug on one of Rafa's top three targets this summer. And whether this affects Rafa's relationship with them, you can guarantee that if we have a wobble this season at some point, some journo will pin it on the fact that Rafa isn't happy with them scuppering his transfer plans: "Benitez is unhappy with a perceived lack of support from Hicks and Gillett, illustrated by the pair's unwillingness to sanction an 18 million move for Villa captain Gareth Barry in the summer" etc. This could destabilise our season later. But for now, I'm going to focus on the positives. Long Live Xabi!

[Dublin Red]

Originally Posted by 05 Milan

Agreed. What's the net spend so far, 8m or something? There should be at least 10-12 m available without sales, and shifting Pennant and Voronin should in principle finance a deal for a decent wide player.

How are we going to shift Voro if Rafa is pricing him at £6m ??

[davelfc]

I'm really unhappy that nobody has called MoN a pube headed little twat, so I'm going to have to do it.

[dave u]

Originally Posted by Moo

But should the club back the manager's decisions or not? That is the point many people are making on here.

I think it's a bit unfair for anyone to support our schyster owners on this just because of their personal feelings on player A or B.

If the money is not there, then it's not there and it's tough on Rafa (in the current climate).
But is is healthy to have owners, especially like them two, who interfere on the football side of things?

Seperate argument. I think they should support him, and in fairness they have done this summer, apart from this issue. I'm not defending them, I think they're cunts and I want them out. But I can see why they aren't keen on this particular deal.

Originally they sanctioned it because Rafa told them he'd get more for Alonso than he'd pay for Barry. I can understand why they are now thinking that this deal doesn't make sense.

The thing I find strange is that a little over a week ago they were ready to do it, only for Villa to pull the plug. Then Villa give them the go ahead, and they change their mind. That's the part I'm confused by.

[Catch22]

Difficult as although the manager runs the club there will always be some sort of ultimate control.
Ideally this should be debated not given as an order... "Appreciate why you want him but the bids have disappeared for Xabi & Villa are messing us around. Maybe we should consider....."

On this occasion i understand why they pull the plug if indeed they do as Barry is 28.
However I am just a little surprised they allowed Keane to join as the same arguments can be made against him...

[dave u]

Originally Posted by Dublin Red

How are we going to shift Voro if Rafa is pricing him at £6m ??

If he priced him at £3m the offers would be for £1.5m

Rafa has done well this summer with this kind of thing, he knows he won't get £6m for Voronin but if he can get £3m he's done well.

[dave u]

Originally Posted by Catch22

Difficult as although the manager runs the club there will always be some sort of ultimate control.
Ideally this should be debated not given as an order... "Appreciate why you want him but the bids have disappeared for Xabi & Villa are messing us around. Maybe we should consider....."

On this occasion i understand why they pull the plug if indeed they do as Barry is 28.
However I am just a little surprised they allowed Keane to join as the same arguments can be made against him...

That's exactly what has happened though, they have discussed it with him and asked him to maybe reconsider.

As for Keane, the difference is that we really needed a player like him.

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by Moo

But should the club back the manager's decisions or not? That is the point many people are making on here.

I think it's a bit unfair for anyone to support our schyster owners on this just because of their personal feelings on player A or B.

If the money is not there, then it's not there and it's tough on Rafa (in the current climate).
But is is healthy to have owners, especially like them two, who interfere on the football side of things?

it's common sense, if we can't get rid of Alonso what is the point?

do you want us to sell Alonso to Arsenal for £10m to buy Barry for £19m?

90% on a poll on here was against selling Alonso to Arsenal

[Red Nick]

Originally Posted by Moo

But should the club back the manager's decisions or not? That is the point many people are making on here.

I think it's a bit unfair for anyone to support our schyster owners on this just because of their personal feelings on player A or B.

If the money is not there, then it's not there and it's tough on Rafa (in the current climate).
But is is healthy to have owners, especially like them two, who interfere on the football side of things?

Not if you believe they are clouded by non football issues.

Also a football club like LFC have to make some business based decisions about Value for Money that a Chelsea or Manu dont have to do and in reality Barry would probably have a huge write off the day we signed him, you could say the same about Carrick when he joined Manu, no one is going to give utd what they paid for him but they can afford it and we cant.