Please Media...

[Brownie]

Originally Posted by Unrighteous

The play of the club was different in the beginning of the season. We signed mobile players in the summer and we had fantastic movement throughout our side.

We were keeping the ball on the ground a lot more and pushing around defences with smart passing.

I'm not saying Crouch couldn't pass and whatnot but his mobility isn't there and Voronin was playing very well at the beginning of the season.

It isn't as bizarre as you are representing...

Okay, well I suppose if we sign a centre half for free in the summer and then play him ahead of say Skrtel, that would be fine then?

Crouch was top scorer last season and then suddenly found himself out in the cold because we signed someone on a free transfer.

It's pointless debating it with you though mate because you even admit yourself that you're not a fan of Crouch.

Crouch was bought to improve us in the league due to his physical atributes, as well as his technical ability. That proved to be a great signing by Rafa and it totally served its purpose - then it was scrapped.

[Redexile]

Originally Posted by Moo

Seems a funny comment anyway from John Aldridge.
He's an ex-Liverpool player himself, so can give his own opinion, not sure why he'd want to give someone else's?

(Didn't hear it at all though so not sure of the context)

I was stuck in traffic and listening. Aldo was slagging him as one of the worst players ever to wear the red shirt. He said he'd run into an ex pro( not ex red) who said that Voronin was a the worst red he'd seen.
Cue lots of texts afterwards agreeing or throwing Sean Dundee, Eric Meijer etc into the mix. Personally I don't think he's the worst just not good enough for us. I would make the fourth striker spot open for one of the ressies.

[Paul]

If Aldo thinks Voronin is the worst player he's ever seen in a Red shirt, he either watched the horror show that was The Albatross with his eyes shut or else it scarred him so badly that his mind has blanked it out to prevent further distress. I still shudder at the memory of him being repeatedly ripped to shreds by the might of Julian Gray against Birmingham. The Spanish Carra? If Carra had a turd whilst on holiday in Mallorca and someone fished it out of the bog and stuck it in a pair of boots, it'd perform better than Josemi and be more deserving of that nickname. Voronin is a hundred times the player that cacker was.

[Rashid]

I think Voronin is up there with Sean Dundee, Josemi and Pelligrino.... absolute dog shit.

[Brownie]

I don't think Voronin is that bad. It just grates that he plays as much as he does, and his work rate is fucking shocking too, the lazy cunt.

[drewy]

Talking of the media, did anybody catch the pure TV gold comment from the hirsute one on The Last word?

Key's to Gray;

"Chelsea V Liverpool Andy, now Liverpool have to go to Chelsea and do something they're not noted for..............win!"

How is this cunt still in television?

[Paul]

United slip out of character on the biggest stage as rotation ruins their timing.

The fixture build-up and the decision to play for a draw has cost United in big games.

Paul Wilson, The Observer April 27

It would have been the act of a brave man or a spoilsport to mention it as Stamford Bridge rocked with delight at the final whistle, but this might be as good as it gets for Chelsea in the League this season.

Manchester United still have to drop points at home to West Ham or away to Wigan to let Chelsea see the top of the table, and in the circumstances that probably will not happen, yet fair play to Avram Grant. His side are level on points with two games to play, the title race will go to the last day, and he took on Sir Alex Ferguson at the old mind games and won.

Mind games are over-rated if you ask this observer - Ferguson had absolutely no intention of unsettling Kevin Keegan when he said Leeds had raised their game against United all those years ago - though it was cheekily clever of Grant to claim the leaders were feeling the pressure and beginning to drop points the day before the game.

A puce-faced Ferguson did little to suggest otherwise in angrily remonstrating from the touchline as Chelsea secured the points - at one stage in the second half he was on his feet imploring the United fans to make more noise and show their support and he ended the game on the pitch dragging his players away from officials - and a clearly wound-up Owen Hargreaves was so incensed at a refereeing decision at the end he vented his fury at the fourth official as he left the pitch. When United have calmed down they might be able to take this defeat in their stride, but for the moment it is fair to say they are rattled. Stewards had to intervene to prevent a fight breaking out on the pitch after the game had finished, when Patrice Evra and several other non-playing members of United's squad took exception to a remark made by a member of the Chelsea groundstaff and a punch was thrown.

Ferguson managed to be slightly magnanimous in defeat - he did admit Chelsea were the better team in the first half - but otherwise he delighted home supporters with one of his more entertaining Mr Angry impressions. It is a fact that United have now picked up just five points from the last 12, largely as a result of draws with Middlesbrough and Blackburn, but Grant also knew that Ferguson would have to select a team with Tuesday's Champions League semi-final against Barcelona in mind. Chelsea themselves face Liverpool, but a day later, and Ferguson spent his pre-match interviews raging about the injustice of an early kick-off on a Saturday when his team had already had a day less than Chelsea to recover from a taxing match in midweek.

United were never likely to come out with all guns blazing here, and they didn't. For the second successive game they attempted to play for a draw, or at least contain their opponents and hope to pinch a goal on the break, and that is not their forte. Wayne Rooney cut a forlorn figure playing on his own against John Terry and Ricardo Carvalho. As replacements for Cristiano Ronaldo and Paul Scholes, the seemingly like-for-like Nani and Anderson failed to live up to their billing and United only got the foothold in the game that set up an exciting ending because Carvalho dozily gifted Rooney a goal early in the second half.

Up to that point United had never looked likely to score and even when Carvalho's misplaced pass set up Rooney with a one-on-one against Petr Cech, there was no certainty that the striker would succeed. Rooney had banged a hip minutes earlier and slowed up considerably. Clearly in discomfort, he had been looking towards the bench before his chance arrived, though even an injured Rooney was not going to pass up the lifeline Carvalho offered.

With the unlucky Nemanja Vidic lasting just 14 minutes of his comeback game before catching a stray boot in the face from Didier Drogba, Ferguson may be unable to select his preferred side against Barcelona. Vidic recovered from a stomach bug only to have a tooth knocked through his lip. The Serb's absence compromised Ferguson's selection for the first leg and he may again have to limit his attacking ambitions if he cannot name his first-choice defence, though early indications are the defender was dazed rather than concussed.

With Vidic off the field, United were too easily drawn out of position for Chelsea's opening goal by the simple expedient of Drogba sending over a cross rather than meeting one. With Wes Brown and Rio Ferdinand concentrating on Drogba, Hargreaves did not realise until too late that Michael Ballack was free to line up a firm header.

Rooney's absence on Tuesday would hurt United even more, but though Ferguson described his condition as 'painful' he thought he had a good chance of recovering. There is always Carlos Tevez, Ronaldo and the rest, but United are not the same without Rooney and it is the difficulty of marking him that often creates opportunities for the others. 'You will see a different Wayne Rooney on Tuesday, believe me,' Ferguson said when looking forward to the Barcelona game. 'Wayne sacrificed himself on Wednesday and he had no problem when I told him what I wanted from him. He has the ability and energy to do that for the team and although he didn't play to his normal standard he'll be playing a different position on Tuesday.'

Should this turn out not to be the case, Ferguson may find himself ruefully reviewing his recent selection policy. Injuries can never be predicted and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if it turns out that United cannot field their strongest team against Barcelona they may come to regret their unusual caution in the first leg. Ferguson may also consider he rested the wrong players here, or left Rooney with too much to do on his own, and even if United prevail against Barcelona, may also be worried about meeting Chelsea in the final.

This result will certainly have fortified Chelsea's self-belief for Liverpool on Wednesday. 'This was an absolute must win game for us, and we won it,' Terry said. 'People have been saying we can't beat Arsenal and we can't beat United, and we've shown we can. We've shown we can be a match for anybody.'

To cap it all, Chelsea even found a use for Andrei Shevchenko. He came on as a substitute for the last nine minutes, Grant's second attacking change after sending on Nicolas Anelka for Paulo Ferreira, and ended up clearing off the line from Darren Fletcher's header. That, Sir Alex, is how to make the best use of a big squad. And it went down a treat with the reporter sitting next to me in the press box, who thought he would have to go all the way back home to Ukraine without a story. With Ferdinand issuing an apology afterwards for accidentally catching a female steward when kicking a wall in frustration at the final whistle, there were more stories here than most of the home reporters knew what to do with.

[King Emlyn]

Originally Posted by Uncle Travelling Matt

To have an experienced international as your 4th choice striker to sit on the bench and play 10% of the games, we are never gonna get someone better who will be happy to do that. He is FAR from our worst ever player, he works hard, keeps position and pops up with the odd goal, for me he is no worse than Fowler was as our 4th choice striker. He is simply just the current hate figure, there always has to be one.

He really doesn't.

[Brownie]

Just had a quick look at the stats and Crouch has started only nine games in the league this season. Voronin has started twelve and has had a fairly long-term injury as well!

Bizarre.

[drewy]

Voronin is one of the worst Liverpool players I have seen, and I've seen some crap over the years.

[shanks59]

Originally Posted by Brownie

Okay, well I suppose if we sign a centre half for free in the summer and then play him ahead of say Skrtel, that would be fine then?

Crouch was top scorer last season and then suddenly found himself out in the cold because we signed someone on a free transfer.

It's pointless debating it with you though mate because you even admit yourself that you're not a fan of Crouch.

Crouch was bought to improve us in the league due to his physical atributes, as well as his technical ability. That proved to be a great signing by Rafa and it totally served its purpose - then it was scrapped.

He won't sign a contract, forget him

[kopsawyer]

Originally Posted by drewy

Talking of the media, did anybody catch the pure TV gold comment from the hirsute one on The Last word?

Key's to Gray;

"Chelsea V Liverpool Andy, now Liverpool have to go to Chelsea and do something they're not noted for..............win!"

How is this cunt still in television?

Yeh i heard that. Even worse,i sat there shakeing my head was when they went on about ronaldo and tevez maybe needing a rest and how he was protecting them.Fucking unbelivable.

[KevieG]

Bit off topic but this is a nice article about how Ginsoak is an insecure bottler when it comes to the top competition in Europe. If they fuck this up he'll be torn to shreds



By Dion Fanning

Sunday April 27 2008

When Alex Ferguson sounds like the keynote speaker at a Uefa conference in Nyon rather than the man who learned everything about football and life in Govan, it is time to worry.

Commentators, players and managers are promising a different Manchester United when Barcelona play at Old Trafford on Tuesday night but there is no reason to believe that United will abandon their domestic attitude and play a game that is not governed by fear.

Ferguson turned into Gerard Houllier last Wednesday, commending his team for controlling the spaces in which Barcelona attack, talking to the coaches' conferences rather than the hard men of football which is where he learned the game.

Fear is what the bully feels when he moves beyond his comfortable environment and fear is what Ferguson shows whenever United are asked to move outside the zone of their domestic domineering.

Arrigo Sacchi accused United yesterday of betraying English football. "Manchester United arrived in great form and played a game that betrayed the English culture and its history. They thought only to defend with everyone back, attacking with few players. There was no action." Sacchi's charge will only stick if United freeze this week.

At Old Trafford on Tuesday night, Ferguson may shed the work angel mantle and become a house devil again; that is the expectation but there are as many reasons for United to be apprehensive, if not more, this week.

United might feel that they have done the difficult job, but they went to the Nou Camp at a time when the home side were so forlorn they were almost seeking confirmation that they have blown the opportunities they once had. A swaggering United display would have left Barcelona remorseful and shattered, a side without hope. But United retreated to their 18-yard line and left town having handed over possession and confidence to Barcelona.

United's defence has been outstanding this season but now they will feel the pressure not to concede as each goal counts double.

It makes their collective decision to retreat in the Nou Camp more baffling. Ferguson may have talked up Barcelona before the game, but he knows the reality of their recent form and he knows, too, their pedigree. It matches Manchester United's as a catalogue of European failure.

Like United, Barcelona have only won the competition twice, too few times for a club of their stature, but an indication of some sort of institutional loss of nerve. But United lost theirs last week and dressed up this failure of will as a tactical triumph, a line those who consider themselves purists were prepared to go along with.

It was nothing of the sort. United should still qualify for the final but they have raised the level of anxiety which now is a factor as potent as the skills of any of the players on the field.

Barcelona have no pressure now; they do not have to go to Manchester and search for a goal. They can wait.

Their away form is a comfort for United too, but the chance for Ferguson's side to announce themselves as the most assured in Europe was wasted last Wednesday.

Instead, Ferguson retreated behind the coaching speak that seems to afflict him in Europe.

There are teams that would play as United did in the Nou Camp and it would be a triumph, although Liverpool, widely regarded as the most tactically restricted side in the competition, went there and won last season. But it is not what Manchester United are supposed to be about under Ferguson.

On Tuesday, it will be established definitively if his commitment to the attacking game over the past 20 years was a deep-rooted belief or solely an expression of the unhealthy and aggressive dominance he has exerted over every other side in the English game.

Ferguson shrinks in Europe. He turns up at every press conference, a man eager to please, keen that his credentials as one of the game's intellectuals be applauded.

It was hard to believe Ferguson's statements that he was disappointed by the attacking side of his side's display in the Nou Camp, not when Wayne Rooney was asked to play on the right-hand side of midfield and Ji-sung Park remained on the field offering superb market penetration in Asia but little impact on the field.

Ferguson had hoped for something of the Spirit of Turin but it is hard to summon that when Michael Carrick, not Roy Keane, is the central midfielder and the man who comes closest to matching Keane's heart is a marginal figure.

Ferguson's misuse of Rooney is one of his greatest follies and indicates aspects of the bully too. Fearful that any day Real Madrid will take Ronaldo away from him, he has made no attempt to turn Ronaldo's occasional individual talents into a diligent and more productive force for the team. Instead, Ferguson panders to him and asks Rooney, the most gifted player in England today, to perform as a shift worker while Ronaldo is indulged and indulgent. He played on Wednesday night with the classic mixture of narcissistic outrage and paralysing fear that prevent him being what he is hailed: the world's greatest player.

The penalty miss gave United an out. It was spun that they had been jolted by Ronaldo's miss and that the player himself took some time to recover from it. In reality, Ronaldo would probably have missed in the 89th minute too.

Ferguson returned home and started complaining about the fixture list, like the timid office worker who walks in the door of his house and starts whinging about his dinner. He is on sure ground, confident that nobody can attack him after a lifetime getting worked up about trivialities.

The side that won in Turin nine years ago was marshalled by Keane who might have been fearless in a way it is now apparent Ferguson is not. United, also, had no option then, their backs were to the wall and they had no choice but to fight or take the flight home.

Since then United have been timid away from Old Trafford and the scoreless draw away from home is the result they fear. They have not converted from this position before and if they do not score quickly then they may begin to worry.

A lot will depend on Barcelona's attitude. Messi will benefit from the hour he had at the Nou Camp when he demonstrated the heart, the skill and the willingness that make him the best player in the world. Others will need to match it or at least try. When Samuel Eto'o stayed on his feet as he was fouled by Rio Ferdinand, he was hailed by many, Ferdinand prominent among them, for his sportsmanship. But it is the sign of the non-trier when he is applauded for some spurious act of sportsmanship that is detrimental to his own team. Paolo Di Canio, on one of his rare trips out of London with West Ham, was applauded for another noble and meaningless gesture at Goodison Park one December afternoon in 2000, while Harry Redknapp seethed, if publicly commending his generosity of spirit.

If Barcelona can shake off their apathy and play at Old Trafford with enthusiasm, they will discover if United's failure to play football was, as Ferguson insists, just a surprising failure on the night or indications of a deeper fear.

But this is Ferguson's greatest opportunity. To have reached one final after 15 years in the European Cup is the great regret of Ferguson's career and he knows it. Barcelona provide, even now, the most difficult obstacle to a second triumph, for Ferguson would not be so timid if he faced Liverpool or Chelsea.

He knows them, he has dominated them and even with Rafael Benitez's record in Europe he would surely not manage by fear.

Chelsea celebrated at Anfield on Tuesday night and it made sense. They had been outplayed and out-thought in a game which, if it had finished 1-0, would have been harsh on Liverpool. Instead, Chelsea got the equaliser and an away goal but they will be nervous too.

Grant transmits no confidence to his team and it remains staggering that he managed to convey such assurance to Roman Abramovich that he got the job in the first place. Liverpool know the statistic that they have not scored at Stamford Bridge since Benitez took over but they went there without Fernando Torres this season and he is unlikely to miss the chances he missed last Tuesday again.

Torres may yet get another chance to face Manchester United this season. But while Liverpool know what they have to do and will play in keeping with the instincts of their manager, United will have to decide which side of their personality to display.

At home, they know no fear. Ferguson went against domestic instincts again last week. He will be more sure of himself at Old Trafford. United need their bully back. They need Ferguson's commitment to raging glory.

[hamstrung]

Originally Posted by DT

He's got 5 goals this season.

By no means good enough, but also not as bad as you make out.

Yep

[stmichael]

Originally Posted by snez1

Did he? Fuck me, i didn't think even HE could have a go for that at this time of year.....my God. Mind you i had SSN on when the first goal went in and knew they'd scored by the fact i could hear him cream himself off screen. Cunt of the highest order.

nicholas is a cunt end of.

a couple of weeks ago they were talking about barry possibly signing for us. thommo said he thought it would be an excellent signing. nicholas then with a snigger says "can't see it, he's far too attacking to play for liverpool".

twat, end of.

[KevieG]

Originally Posted by Unrighteous

Ferguscum rested Ronaldo and Tevez and lost because of it... Will you please fucking slam him for rotation?

This rotation may have just cost him the league. FUCKING SLAM HIM FOR IT!

Ginsoak is getting it in the neck from most media outlets as far as I can see, both for his rotation and hypocrisy over "Respect the Ref"

A nice little points deduction would be just the job