a challenge to those who say Rafa is with Hicks

[isr]

I've seen countless instances of people passing off as fact that Rafa is part of the "Hicks camp". Repeatedly, this is regurgitated as a stick to beat our manager with.

With Rafa's deep discomfort (mentioned by many journalists now, so it seems obvious that he has let a few off-the-record comments slip, not to mention the cancellation of that press conference) at being used as a partial excuse by Hicks in his latest desperate manoeuvre (letter to Parry), I again want to question this assertion.

Why are Rafa's efforts at keeping the squad running and salvaging our season - by keeping his head down in the current fight and not further antagonising our current owners - being interpreted as support for the Hicks regime?

I'm going to repeat some questions I posed on an earlier thread (as yet UNANSWERED), in the hope that those who continue to repeat the Rafa+Hicks mantra might respond. Its harder to ignore when its not buried within another thread. If you can't answer them now, we all know why.

Originally Posted by isr

Rashid,

Could you share those facts, please? Genuinely.

Lets get a couple of things out of the way first of all:

1) Rafa is the manager, and needs to work with whoever signs the cheques in order to get things done. That remains the case no matter who is in charge - the most benevolent owners in the footballing world, or the most rapacious looters.

So, working WITH the owners on matters pertaining to the smooth functioning of the squad cannot be construed as an active approval of the owners by Rafa.

2) Rafa never did, and doesn't now, own any shares. Nor does he have a seat on the boardroom. He was not involved in the decision to sell to the Yanks. He was not a party to any of the refinancing decisions. He has no part in any of the potential takeover discussions.

So, his lack on involvement in the ongoing "who will own Liverpool" saga cannot be construed as an active approval of the current owners by Rafa.

So, I would like to ask:
a) how do you know for a fact that Rafa is IN Hicks camp?
b) what part has Rafa played in ensuring that Hicks retains control of Liverpool?
c) what possible impact can Rafa make on the takeover saga, and if so, why hasn't he done it.

I share your frustrations Rashid, but I would genuinely like to know what Rafa has done to bolster Hicks. If you, Dave, or anyone could address the above 3 questions, I would be better informed.

Thanks in advance :)

Still waiting for a response..............

[Rashid]

A) Chris Bascombe and Dave Usher have said so, and I trust them. A journalist I know who knows Hicks well, also told me that Rafa if he had to choose would go with Hicks now.

I don't know why this is ot if it is 100% true but I think there may be something in it given that Parry favours DIC and Rafa has been critical of Parry in the past.

[rebel23]

any owner would have to be fcking stupid to want to get rid of Rafa, he is the one who gets through to European semi's and finals thus bringing in an extra on average £30m a season which pays (and has paid) for all the transfers

makes me laugh how people think he is dispensable and we can just get another great manager, truth is Benitez is building the value of the club much like Wenger and Slur Alex, we're very, very lucky to have him and the way he has been treated is shocking

[isr]

Originally Posted by Rashid

A) Chris Bascombe and Dave Usher have said so, and I trust them. A journalist I know who knows Hicks well, also told me that Rafa if he had to choose would go with Hicks now.

So its all just rumours and whispers. A whispers to B, who mentions it to C, who says it to D. D tells E, who then jumps online, and screams it out loud to the whole world. F reads what E wrote, and repeats it like gospel.

Pretty soon, its established fact, and every fan is now encouraged to demand Rafa's dismissal because he's in bed with Hicks.

Surely you can see by now what is so wrong and downright despicable about this. Surely.

Originally Posted by Rashid

I don't know why this is ot if it is 100% true but I think there may be something in it given that Parry favours DIC and Rafa has been critical of Parry in the past.

So you're not sure, but you repeat it as if it was a fact, on numerous occasions, on numerous threads. Sometimes ending with demands for Rafa's head.

With the added "proof" that Rafa is critical of Parry. Of course, any fan who has been critical of Parry in the past must be suspected of sympathies with Hicks. Know any fans who fit that bill?



I apologise in advance for being a pedantic ass. But I'm going to repeat my questions. As they have still not been answered.

Originally Posted by isr

So, I would like to ask:
a) how do you know for a fact that Rafa is IN Hicks camp?
b) what part has Rafa played in ensuring that Hicks retains control of Liverpool?
c) what possible impact can Rafa make on the takeover saga, and if so, why hasn't he done it.

I share your frustrations Rashid, but I would genuinely like to know what Rafa has done to bolster Hicks. If you, Dave, or anyone could address the above 3 questions, I would be better informed.

I'm still waiting for ANYONE (including, but not only Rashid) who has repeatedly stated that Rafa is in Hick's camp to please answer the above.

The challenge remains in place .....

[Lapskaus]

The way Rafa is treated is a disgrace. We have him to thank for everything

[billybonzo]

I'm loving this thread, and i know where my money would go if i had to pick a winner.

[Captain]

Originally Posted by Lapskaus

The way Rafa is treated is a disgrace. We have him to thank for everything

Sometimes, when I'm in a bad mood, I wish for Rafa to resign and the current owners to stay. It would teach the Rafa-detractors a harsh lesson. Then reason takes over.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by rebel23

any owner would have to be fcking stupid to want to get rid of Rafa, he is the one who gets through to European semi's and finals thus bringing in an extra on average £30m a season which pays (and has paid) for all the transfers

makes me laugh how people think he is dispensable and we can just get another great manager, truth is Benitez is building the value of the club much like Wenger and Slur Alex, we're very, very lucky to have him and the way he has been treated is shocking

Agreed.

[Top of the Kop]

Originally Posted by Captain

Sometimes, when I'm in a bad mood, I wish for Rafa to resign and the current owners to stay. It would teach the Rafa-detractors a harsh lesson. Then reason takes over.

me too mate.

12 months down the line, with some oaf like Roeder in charge - the tears would soon flow

[billybonzo]

Quality, remember when Rodent was meant to be our new assistant manager. Laugh, i nearly pissed me kecks.

[real red]

Originally Posted by isr

So, I would like to ask:
a) how do you know for a fact that Rafa is IN Hicks camp?
b) what part has Rafa played in ensuring that Hicks retains control of Liverpool?
c) what possible impact can Rafa make on the takeover saga, and if so, why hasn't he done it.

a) Rafa knows he has a future under Hicks. He knows he has no future under Gillett, and that Gillett mistrusts him in an almost paranoid way. I don't know what DIC have told him but they seem fairly non-commital last I heard, so I can't imagine him trusting them. Does that put him in Hicks' camp? And I'm not saying how I know that, but I've not just made it up!

b) No idea. I've heard rumours of stuff but I don't know if the rumours have come from him or from those who are against him. But the only people who can help Hicks take control of the club are those who give him the money, then Gillett for accepting the money. Short of exposing Gillett and Stavelely in some sort of Paul Jewell video I can't see what Rafa can do.

c) I think I've probably answered that in b). Just to clarify matters a bit more, I don't think this press shite will make a difference to the outcome, it all comes down to money and whatever is really in the share agreements. If Gillett is legally allowed to accept an offer from DIC over one from Hicks then it will come down to money I suppose, if Hicks outbids Gillett I can't see Gillett not going with it. If Gillett has to accept any offer from Hicks before DIC then he'll have to sell. If Hicks can't get the money, he can't buy Gillett out anyway. How Rafa can influence that I'm not really sure.

Does that help?

[isr]

Originally Posted by real red

a) Rafa knows he has a future under Hicks. He knows he has no future under Gillett,

Just to address this part.

Agreed, Rafa has a pretty bad relationship with GG. From what I've seen, GG was the prime mover in the Klinsman affair, and some of GG's comments since then ("Rafa deliberately sunk our League challenge during December" ???) almost defy belief (which is consistant with the fact that GG is a cunt).

Why does this make Rafa a Hicks supporter though? GG has almost completely withdrawn from squad affairs. Rafa has to deal with someone. I'm sure that Rafa is under no illusions. He knows that:

1) Hicks was a part of the Klinsman dealings
2) if Hicks gets total control of the club, he won't take kindly to criticism from employees
3) if Hicks get total control, he is not likely to give Rafa the kind of transfer budget which would enable Liverpool to be competitive in the long run, leading to an inevitable Rafa-Hicks conflict. In which case, see 2) above.

From what I can see, Rafa must surely know that the only way in which he can stay as Liverpool manager for the long term is for some financially secure owners to come in, and give him a competitive transfer budget.

All the signs point to Rafa, having initially blown the whistle, then felt that he had pushed things as far as he - the manager - was able to. At that point, it was a choice between one more push and he's out the door, or just battoning down the hatches, and salvaging this season.

So if he choose the latter, and declines to make any further initimidating remarks about the owners, how does this make him a part of the Hicks camp?

I just don't see the logic. Its more a case of stepping back from the front line, and safeguarding the clubs main interests (the team).

After all, if we really want Hicks and GG out at any cost, StevieG, Carra and Rafa could just decide to throw the semi final, and fuck up the remaining League games so we finish outside the CL places.

No more CL revenues next year, to fund loan repayments. If the owners asset strip the 1st team, then no CL revenues in 2010 either. No refinancing (reduced projected future revenues). Job done, they're out.

But I don't think anyone really wants that. The cure would be worse than the disease.

[Rashid]

Originally Posted by isr

From what I can see, Rafa must surely know that the only way in which he can stay as Liverpool manager for the long term is for some financially secure owners to come in, and give him a competitive transfer budget.

1. Rafa has spent more NET and GROSS than any Premiership club in the last two transfer windows combined.

2. Rafa has spent more NET and GROSS than any Premiership club bar Chelsea in the time he has been at Liverpool.

What would you term as a "competitive" transfer budget mate?

Lastly, how do you know the men who have big money to spend actually want Rafa in charge?

RealRed's post is 100% spot on as far as I have heard.

[billybonzo]

Answer the questions at the start of the thread and stop doing your usual cherry picking you tit.

[Rashid]

Originally Posted by billybonzo

Answer the questions at the start of the thread and stop doing your usual cherry picking you tit.

It's been answered you fallice.

[RedKnight]

Here's what I think... the Americans out and new, more stable owners in. Then Moores and Parry out and then, and then, we'll look at the coaching staff.

[G Richards]

I haven't read anything on all of this (just got in) but my tuppence worth:

Rafa and Hicks had a falling out. Rafa was agitating for some transfer action and Hicks said (in his unhelpful, outspoken way) that Rafa should get on with training the players. At the time I really feel things came close to the boil between them, but they smoothed things over and developed a better working relationship.

Now, this should not be confused with Rafa favouring Hicks, as I'm not sure he does. I think Rafa just wants to do his job and he needs to know where he stands, and as far as Rafa can tell, Hicks is the man he needs to work with (largely because Hicks seems to be the boss with the mouth).

[georgeharrisong]

rashid - please don't call someone a phallus until you can spell it.

as far as i can see, rafa is being consistently pragmatic. having a spat with one or other of these cunts was inevitable given their divergent goals (rafa;to win everything, g&h; to spin a buck or two).

equally, finding a way of rubbing along was inevitable. rafa doesn't want to walk out, therefore his only option is to do what he can.

i don't like the way subtle questioning of rafa's tenure here has crept into these discussions...even those who propose focussing on the americans, then parry...then the coaching staff fall into this. i feel that our march to the the semi final of the world's most prestigious tournament (again) despite the arseburgers and their shenanigans at board level is more than enough reason to canonise rafa.

certainly not happy slagging him off based on half baked supposition and tabloid shite.

[Stu Monty]

Its phallus. You fucking phallus.