a challenge to those who say Rafa is with Hicks

[isr]

Originally Posted by Dermot

The reality here is that Rafa says the opportunity to win silverware this season and that is all that he is looking at. I think Rafa being on better terms with Hicks is also an effort to get what he feels ne needs for the summer. I genuinely suspect that some people would rather that Rafa was also making the same noises that he did a few months ago, but if hewas still fighting that fight we would be out of Europe and there would be no hope of new blood in the summer and I suspect that the usual suspects would be bleating again. At this very difficult time for us all I am drawing comfort from the fact that Rafa has his head down and is trying to drive us forward.

In a nutshell, thats the most plausible reason for why Rafa is keeping his down.

Why that gets translated into "Rafa would prefer Hicks to gain overall control over Liverpool for the long term", is beyond me.

[Dirk]

If Bascombe is correct in today's article then I doubt there's much of a Rafa-Hicks alliance.

[isr]

Originally Posted by Rashid

What would you term as a "competitive" transfer budget mate?

My $0.02? Ok then. From 2004, a big enough budget allowing Rafa to totally overhaul the squad from top to bottom. And then, once we have a squad capable to genuinely challenging for League and European honours every season, then a budget MATCHING that of our rivals, so that we stay competitive.

I'll let you translate that into numbers.

Originally Posted by Rashid

Lastly, how do you know the men who have big money to spend actually want Rafa in charge?

I don't. I also don't know why they would have already made their minds up to sack him either. See my last reply to real red.

Originally Posted by Rashid

RealRed's post is 100% spot on as far as I have heard.

RealRed has not, and hasn't pretended to, offer any proof that Rafa wants Hicks to gain complete control of Liverpool FC. He has explained why he thinks Rafa is not going out of his way to tangle with Hicks any more. At the risk of putting words into RealRed's mouth, I don't think that even he is arguing that Rafa would prefer Hicks over DIC, or some other well-funded, well-intentioned and well-run new ownership.

Anyway, I should let RealRed answer that.

Originally Posted by billybonzo

Answer the questions at the start of the thread and stop doing your usual cherry picking you tit.

Originally Posted by Rashid

It's been answered you fallice.

No, it hasn't. The challenge was to those who advocate that Rafa is in favour of Hicks gaining total control of Liverpool FC. Or, more succinctly, that Rafa is in the Hicks camp.

What we have discussed so far is WHY Rafa has backed away from the anti-Hicks+GG battle, and is now maintaining a low profile. No action or words on his part to prove the above.

I repeat:
So, I would like to ask:
a) how do you know for a fact that Rafa is IN Hicks camp?
b) what part has Rafa played in ensuring that Hicks retains control of Liverpool?
c) what possible impact can Rafa make on the takeover saga, and if so, why hasn't he done it.

I'll withdraw a), because it now seems pretty obvious that no-one here knows for a fact that he is in Hicks camp. No-one seems to have been holding onto some bombshell news that wasn't in the public domain.

Even those who state that they know Rafa is on Hicks side, and has therefore betrayed the fans, and should be sacked, have already admitted that ..... err, actually, they're just inferring it from the same quotes we have all read.

So, if you have failed on a), how about your take on b) and c)?

I'm not trying to turn this into a one-man duck shoot, but its now time to back up your one-liners with some concrete arguments. Over to you.

[bobhorse]

Ok here is my two pence worth

Facts as i see them

Parry is a waste of space

G&H are Owners from Hell

Rafa has to work with all parties

Parry fails to communicate Rafa's transfer wishes to G&H

Parry Tell Rafa something different

Rafa see's his arse has a pop at G&H

G&H see there Arse look at replacing Rafa with Klinsmen

Klinsmen story breaks Fans see there arse regarding losing Rafa

Rafa Parry G&H sit down and truth comes out

Rafa now knows Parry is a cunt G&H know that now to

Ayre is looked on to replace Parry

Parry and Moores refuse to back G&H for the restructure of debt

Gillet wants to sell to DIC Hicks doesnt want that and block's it

G&H fall out Gillet goes to bed with DIC

Hicks is isolated sees that the fans all wish Parry would fuck off

Plays his trump card asks Parry to go in the hope of getting some fans on board knowing if Gillet doesn't agree to it there is a very public split which allows him to go back on what he said about selling to DIC

Rafa has to stay nutral and work with all parties

When this is over Parry G&H and Ayre will all be gone and maybe Rafa aswell though that would be insane 3 semi finals and 2 finals upto now in the time he has been here would mean he would walk into any top job and we would be losers big style

now where in all this is the Rafa has sided with Hicks i dont know

[Evil_Ways]

Seems to me Rafa is playing his cards close to his chest. He's trying to survive this shitstorm, and somehow it seems he's managed to so far.
He cannot go around being anti owner if he wishes to stay in the job, as we realised a couple of months back when he basically flushed them out for what they were/are.

I dont for one second believe he wishes Hicks remain in control if he can choose between him and DIC. Havent seen a bit of evidence to support that.

[Kopite]

My view is rather simplistic:

Rashid wants Rafa out.

[Brownie]

Originally Posted by isr

I don't. I also don't know why they would have already made their minds up to sack him either. See my last reply to real red.



RealRed has not, and hasn't pretended to, offer any proof that Rafa wants Hicks to gain complete control of Liverpool FC. He has explained why he thinks Rafa is not going out of his way to tangle with Hicks any more. At the risk of putting words into RealRed's mouth, I don't think that even he is arguing that Rafa would prefer Hicks over DIC, or some other well-funded, well-intentioned and well-run new ownership.

Anyway, I should let RealRed answer that.







No, it hasn't. The challenge was to those who advocate that Rafa is in favour of Hicks gaining total control of Liverpool FC. Or, more succinctly, that Rafa is in the Hicks camp.

What we have discussed so far is WHY Rafa has backed away from the anti-Hicks+GG battle, and is now maintaining a low profile. No action or words on his part to prove the above.

I repeat:
So, I would like to ask:
a) how do you know for a fact that Rafa is IN Hicks camp?
b) what part has Rafa played in ensuring that Hicks retains control of Liverpool?
c) what possible impact can Rafa make on the takeover saga, and if so, why hasn't he done it.

I'll withdraw a), because it now seems pretty obvious that no-one here knows for a fact that he is in Hicks camp. No-one seems to have been holding onto some bombshell news that wasn't in the public domain.

Even those who state that they know Rafa is on Hicks side, and has therefore betrayed the fans, and should be sacked, have already admitted that ..... err, actually, they're just inferring it from the same quotes we have all read.

So, if you have failed on a), how about your take on b) and c)?

I'm not trying to turn this into a one-man duck shoot, but its now time to back up your one-liners with some concrete arguments. Over to you.

Everyone has been told not to quote him, so multi-quoting is taking the piss!

[billybonzo]

Originally Posted by Kopite

My view is rather simplistic:

Rashid wants Rafa out.

Out of the goodness of his heart Radish has given Rafa 1 more year, which i'm sure Rafa will be eternally grateful for.

[Liam]

Rafa wont stay forever, he must have a limit to how long he will try and stick this out. He will have less fucking politics at Real Madrid or Barcelona!

[Moo]

I'm quite happy to accept Rafa is 'siding' with Hicks, as long as 'siding' simply means accepting of a working relationship with him.
Let's face it, Hicks is the only one of the gang of twats who stands any chance of being here next year, everyone knows that.

But if someone wants to throw a different light on things and give a more sinister definition of 'siding' then please feel free, as so far I am yet to read anything remotely convincing.

[TheHitman]

Its an impossible task being Liverpool manager at the moment you have to act with dignity show 100% loyalty dissociate and associate with certain parties simultaneously. Despite bing well aware the people at the helm Hicks, Gillette and Parry all colluded in trying to bring another manager in and whoever comes in is more than likely going to want to appoint their own man or at least someone who is more submissive than Rafa.

[real red]

If we wake up on Friday and Hicks has taken over, with Rafa saying he's pleased it's finally over, and delighted to announce he's finally got a budget he's happy with, a budget he had been promised by Hicks for a while, are people going to burn him?

I'm expecting a sustained anti-Rafa campaign any time soon brought on because he is prepared, if it comes to it, to work with Hicks in the future.

If I was Rafa I'd be out of the place in the summer. Regardless of who takes over.

We've become an awful club off the field, and not just in the boardroom. We've too many factions, too many selfish supporters who only see things from their own perspective. Maybe that's not true, maybe that's just the outspoken ones, but there's enough of it and it pisses me off.

Cue the paranoid ones who automatically assume I'm talking about them.

I don't know if I'm even talking about anyone in this thread.

Sick of hearing people pretending to be more bothered about the club than their own reputations or privileges.

[mars]

atk posted this "the double dealing twat who is manager of the club" on another thread (yes, I shortened the quote because I just want to focus on the point of this thread) - can anyone enlighten me as to what Rafa has done that is double dealing?

Throughout this mess I've tried to keep in mind that Rafa's success and Liverpool's success are one and the same. I find it hard to believe that Rafa would act against the interests of the club. However, things I find hard to believe do happen, so is this double dealing just rumour or is there more to it?

[StevieH]

Originally Posted by mars

atk posted this "the double dealing twat who is manager of the club" on another thread (yes, I shortened the quote because I just want to focus on the point of this thread) - can anyone enlighten me as to what Rafa has done that is double dealing?

Throughout this mess I've tried to keep in mind that Rafa's success and Liverpool's success are one and the same. I find it hard to believe that Rafa would act against the interests of the club. However, things I find hard to believe do happen, so is this double dealing just rumour or is there more to it?

He is also working part time as a waiter in La Tasca.

[Jose Jones]

Originally Posted by real red

If we wake up on Friday and Hicks has taken over, with Rafa saying he's pleased it's finally over, and delighted to announce he's finally got a budget he's happy with, a budget he had been promised by Hicks for a while, are people going to burn him?

I'm expecting a sustained anti-Rafa campaign any time soon brought on because he is prepared, if it comes to it, to work with Hicks in the future.

If I was Rafa I'd be out of the place in the summer. Regardless of who takes over.

We've become an awful club off the field, and not just in the boardroom. We've too many factions, too many selfish supporters who only see things from their own perspective. Maybe that's not true, maybe that's just the outspoken ones, but there's enough of it and it pisses me off.

Cue the paranoid ones who automatically assume I'm talking about them.

I don't know if I'm even talking about anyone in this thread.

Sick of hearing people pretending to be more bothered about the club than their own reputations or privileges.

Would you though RR? As a Liverpool fan who was in the position to do what's best for the club, would you leave because of the almost untenable working conditions? Or would you stay and try and do your best for the club and protect it from the gang of idiots who are doing their best to destroy it?
I'm not having a go here, I think both you and isr have made some excellent posts on this thread. I just reckon Rafa loves the club and is committed to his work here and that's why he hasn't walked out as yet.

[aws]

My take is that Rafa wants Gillett and Parry out. He also wants Hicks out but currently sees him as the lesser evil because Hicks isn't actively seeking to have Rafa sacked at the moment.

Rafa is only an employee. He can't go to war with everybody so he has temporarily mended his fences with hicks so he can get on with running the team while the ownership battle is resolved.

[Moschops II]

And as has been noted before, it's interesting to look at our results and form before and after Rafa was alleged to have "sided" with Hicks.

[real red]

Originally Posted by Jose Jones

Would you though RR? As a Liverpool fan who was in the position to do what's best for the club, would you leave because of the almost untenable working conditions? Or would you stay and try and do your best for the club and protect it from the gang of idiots who are doing their best to destroy it?
I'm not having a go here, I think both you and isr have made some excellent posts on this thread. I just reckon Rafa loves the club and is committed to his work here and that's why he hasn't walked out as yet.

As a Liverpool fan no, I'd not walk out. But Rafa, as much as he's built up a love for the club, is not a Liverpool fan. His wife's feelings must play a part in his thinking too, which means he's not going to walk just yet.

I've no clue how strong this tie to Liverpool is now, if it's getting weaker or stronger because of what's been happening.

But me - if I was doing a job at a club that I like but that wasn't 'my' club, if I was getting the stick Rafa was earlier in the season, and my back stabbed all the time so much that I'd started using my own knife in pre-emptive strikes, then I'd already be thinking about those offers that keep being hinted of elsewhere. There comes a point when enough is enough.

Maybe losing Parry would make it worth a go again, maybe I had a short list of things I wanted to change and I'd stay until either they were done or they were obviously not on.

So - I'm not Rafa, but I can't help thinking sooner or later the day will come when he says whatever's Spanish for "fuck this".

Originally Posted by aws

My take is that Rafa wants Gillett and Parry out. He also wants Hicks out but currently sees him as the lesser evil because Hicks isn't actively seeking to have Rafa sacked at the moment.

Rafa is only an employee. He can't go to war with everybody so he has temporarily mended his fences with hicks so he can get on with running the team while the ownership battle is resolved.

I would go for Rafa realising there are two options on the cards. Hicks or DIC. He can suck up to DIC through third parties. He can suck up to HICKS directly. I don't see what he'd gain from attacking Hicks now. Or what he'd gain from sucking up to Gillett and Parry now.

He's got it all worked out knowing Rafa.

But he doesn't always get his decisions right. Is dealing with owners a CL or PL type area for him?