As bent as Serie A

[Neil G]

I've sobered up, but I haven't calmed down. I'm still fucking incandescent about that prick Bennett.

I made a few posts yesterday suggesting that he was on the take. I'd like to retract those comments, as I just think he's a fucking shit ref who cracked under the pressure from Ferguson. But I stand by the comments I've made about the Mancs having an improper level of influence over referees.

I don't think refs themselves are being bribed, as happened in the Serie A scandal. That would be too obvious and too dangerous, I don't think even the Mancs could get away with that. But I am genuinely starting to believe that, just as Juventus, Milan and the rest did, they hold sway over at least some of the people who choose which referees officiate which games.

I need some assistance here. There are a couple of cases where it's seemed obvious that they've had influence over refereeing appointments, but I can't find the details. The first involved the ref who awarded the last away penalty at OT before Andy d'Urso for Boro in 2000. It was for Norwich in 1993, I can't remember the ref's name but I swear blind that I read somewhere that he never refereed at OT again after that, and maybe was even dropped from the Premier League referees' list. Can someone confirm? I'm absolutely positive that I'm not imagining it.

The second was earlier this season or last, when Ferguson complained about a ref who was then dropped from refereeing at OT the following week. Was it Mike Reilly? Again, can someone please confirm that a) I didn't imagine it and b) no other clubs have been able to get this done.

As for yesterday – well as Dave hinted, it's pretty fishy that Bennett was given his first game at OT for three years in a massive grudge match, in a week where Ferguson demanded that referees be shown respect, something which was utterly out of character for him. He knew that Bennett was a card-happy, over-officious twat, and having drilled it into his players not to mouth off at the ref he could have been confident that Bennett would be far more likely to send one of ours off than theirs.

Now instructing your players to respect the ref in itself is commendable, and the apparent failure of Rafa to do that effectively yesterday cost us. But that is just not what Ferguson does. Look at the grief that Rooney, Ferdinand and Neville regularly give to officials, as did Keane, Butt, Beckham and others when they were at the club. Look at the way Ferguson said Martin Atkinson was unfit to do his job after the Portsmouth game in the Cup. He changed his tune pretty fucking quickly when he saw which way the wind was blowing this week and spotted a way to turn it to his advantage.

All that, when combined with the extraordinary number of dubious decisions that they get in their favour at OT and the fact that Ferguson and his players never get in trouble for their behaviour towards officials when the likes of Wigan do, looks like a pattern to me. Yes a lot of people will think I'm paranoid, but for me there are too many signs of foul play to dismiss the idea completely. People in Italy had been saying something didn't feel right for years before the Serie A scandal broke. Well in the same way, the situation in this country just doesn't feel right either. It goes beyond the expected scope of bigger teams getting decisions in their favour - something which I readily admit we benefit from ourselves at times.

I don't know how the Mancs might exert influence over the selection of referees and the way their players and Ferguson himself are dealt with. It might involve backhanders to certain people on certain panels, or it might just be that they've got an arrangement to play ball with the FA in return for favourable treatment - supporting certain initiatives and actions of the FA, going the extra mile to promote the Premier League, releasing players for England duty. A club of their wealth and stature would be in a position to grant those sorts of favours. Whatever it is, I really think now that they are regularly able to tilt the playing field in their favour. And if that's the case then even if nobody's been bought off per se, it's no less a breach of sporting principles than the Serie A scandal was.

I'm sure somebody posted on here a while back that they'd spoken to a friend or colleague, possibly from Italy, who said that the signs of foul play here are as evident as they were in Italy if only people were prepared to look at them properly, and that a lot of people here are in denial. I've got a feeling it might have been Nunavut Patrick, but I really can't remember. Can anyone resurrect that post?

I hate to sound like a bitter, but as I said last night, I've never been a conspiracy theorist. There are posters on here who regularly claim that the system is stacked against us, but I've never been one of them. My posts on here over the last couple of years bear that out.

Sometimes these things do actually happen, and they're not just limited to certain countries with reputations for corruption. If it ever did turn out that the Mancs had been rigging the deck, can anyone here honestly, hand on heart, say they'd be shocked?

[Newport]

Yeah!

[EmilHamilton]

I'd be surprised if it comes to the surface because as long as Ferguson's in the job it isn't ever going to happen.

[05 Milan]

Bennett sent off Cronaldo earlier in the season. I don't think he's bent, just shit.

[Neil G]

Originally Posted by 05 Milan

Bennett sent off Cronaldo earlier in the season. I don't think he's bent, just shit.

I don't think he's bent either. But he was the right ref for the job in the right circumstances for the Mancs yesterday, that's what I'm saying.

[dave u]

A fella my dad used to work with was a linesman. He disallowed a goal for United at Old Trafford, and he never got another top flight game again. I'm not sure, I'd have to check, but I think it was in the Ferguson era.

[Gav]

top flight football in England,Spain,Scotland,Germany,France,Italy,Russia is all corrupt.The most important man in football is no longer the manager,or the striker ,or star midfielder or the captain of England,the most important man these days is a Chief Exec with media contacts like kenyon

[Neil G]

Originally Posted by dave u

A fella my dad used to work with was a linesman. He disallowed a goal for United at Old Trafford, and he never got another top flight game again. I'm not sure, I'd have to check, but I think it was in the Ferguson era.

It would be interesting to try and build up a dossier of incidents like that and see how it compares to other big clubs, including us. It would involve a lot of digging around, but that's how these things get exposed.

If anybody else is aware of occasions when the Mancs might have influenced the choice of official, let's hear them.

[spider-neil]

fergie certainly used the press conference to his advantage ahead of the game that's for sure.
also bennent getting his first game at OT for years is a little fishy.

[TLW]

Steve Bennett hadn't reffed at OT for three years. Why not? There's another ref who has a similar record, although I can't remember which one now.

[The Chief]

Originally Posted by TLW

Steve Bennett hadn't reffed at OT for three years. Why not? There's another ref who has a similar record, although I can't remember which one now.

It's not Riley, I got showed a list of what Riley had given for and against United a couple of years ago, don't know what it'd be like now, he'd sent off five or six players, and no manc, and he'd awarded something like 8 penalties for them and none against. Looking at that it may be a bit exaggerated, but not much.

[rebel23]

the question is how deep is the corruption? is there organized match fixing? who's involved? is it just bent refs or refs under professional pressure and being 'helpful'? If so who's choosing the refs and what is the procedure? Does Hackett and that cozy ref association decide it on an ad hoc basis? we need some clarity on this.

there was an article in the Mail from Graham Poll saying we should use UEFA referees i.e the best around, the most elite refs, fly them in and pay them, there's enough money in the game for that

[Dirk]

Originally Posted by TLW

Steve Bennett hadn't reffed at OT for three years. Why not? There's another ref who has a similar record, although I can't remember which one now.

Exactly. I don't think the refs are bent, I think that Ferguson manipulates them. Bennett hasn't been there for years because of Purple Nose and then in his first game, he's sucking their cock. I bet he was shitting himself because of the fall out last time, thus he gave them everything. It's a fucking joke.

[Neil G]

Originally Posted by rebel23

the question is how deep is the corruption? is there organized match fixing? who's involved? is it just bent refs or refs under professional pressure and being 'helpful'? If so who's choosing the refs and what is the procedure? Does Hackett and that cozy ref association decide it on an ad hoc basis? we need some clarity on this.

there was an article in the Mail from Graham Poll saying we should use UEFA referees i.e the best around, the most elite refs, fly them in and pay them, there's enough money in the game for that

That's the key question for me. Surely as long as the referees are deemed to be of a good enough standard to officiate Premier League games, they should be allocated either at random or on a rota basis? The fact that certain refs can go for years without refereeing at certain grounds surely proves that neither of these is the case.

The only exception should be referees from a certain town or city not being allowed to referee matches involving teams from that town or city. As I posted last night, I'm pretty sure this applies to cup finals, or at least it used to. But if that's the case then surely certain refs wouldn't ever be allowed to referee at the grounds in question, not go for years between making appearances there.

Does anybody know how these decisions are made? Surely there must be something on an FA website somewhere? If this process isn't transparent then there is quite clearly massive scope for abuse.

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by Neil G

Does anybody know how these decisions are made? Surely there must be something on an FA website somewhere? If this process isn't transparent then there is quite clearly massive scope for abuse.

I read that Hackett does it personally and at his whim, if that is true then it has to change