The Impossible Job?

[Rashid]

Tomkins is a good red but quantity is not quality and to be honest all of his stuff there has been "sexed up" in favour of Rafa. How about we compare ourselves with Bolton, Everton, Blackburn etc too in terms of all those thing? It won't make pretty reading.

[ManxRed]

Originally Posted by Rashid Tomkins is a good red but quantity is not quality and to be honest all of his stuff there has been "sexed up" in favour of Rafa. How about we compare ourselves with Bolton, Everton, Blackburn etc too in terms of all those thing? It won't make pretty reading.

Yes it has been "sexed up" in favour of Rafa, but only because there are more than enough perople tearing the back out of him already.

[Red Nick]

Agree to a degree but it wouldnt be an impossible job if we had new owners

[aws]

One of the biggest factors making the job so difficult is our paranoia about the Mancs overtaking out league titles. It just adds to the impatience factor.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by aws One of the biggest factors making the job so difficult is our paranoia about the Mancs overtaking out league titles. It just adds to the impatience factor.

Andrew - it's not paranoia; they really are on the verge of doing so. As for impatience, most Reds are impatient merely for a challenge to materialise, rather than the actual title itself. No-one can expect that.

[GRADY]

Originally Posted by bobhorse Thats just it all the ingredients arnt there and that is the problem we never have had 2 people at the top in the scoring charts which tells us we arnt scoring enough goals to chances in we create my book so that needs to be corrected if those that are here cant put that right then they should go and others be brought in we have for years had a defensive record that is good enough we have the best CM anywhere on the globe yet we have no width and full backs in both positions that arnt good enough for this club the only way this can be corrected is by 1) Produce your own (Takes Time) 2) Buy (Takes Money) But if you start sacking managers midway through their contract it will/is and impossible Job

I agree with a lot of what your saying however in relation to the above point I am assuming you mean under Benitez's reign rather than since our last tital as obviously the fowler/collymore and owen/fowler and even owen/heskey combinations were good enough to be close to the top of charts individually.

But I think if crouch or even babel had played every game bar injuries/suspensions through the middle for Liverpool they prob wouldnt be far of 10 goals each now in the prem.

This business about us not having 2 strikers near the top of the charts is probably not going to happen under Rafa's reign.
He likes playing with 1 who drops deeper and works like fuck when we havent got the ball with one playing off the last man (torres). That is why I think we rarely see torres and crouch especially against good sides - he is too defensive minded.

I know you said 2 players near the top of the charts. But how often are you going to get a winger or midfielder near the top. Gerrard is doing his best but unless you find a ronaldo like player we are going to struggle from any other position across the midfield.

In spain Benitez won the league under valencia if my memory serves me right scoring 52 goals in a league season. Now Mister banged a load in and then it was evenly spread.
There is no fuckin way you are going to win the league in England scoring that many goals I wouldnt have thought.

So surely my overall point is Benitez will not win the league in England unless he changes his tactics or we go and break all sorts of defensive records and win a lot of games 1-0

[aws]

Originally Posted by Paul Andrew - it's not paranoia; they really are on the verge of doing so. As for impatience, most Reds are impatient merely for a challenge to materialise, rather than the actual title itself. No-one can expect that.

If they overtake us it's not the end of the world. We'll have lost some bragging rights.We'll still survive .

The most important thing is to re-build properly not to be pressurised into changing systems/managers/player nationalities just because the Mancs continue at the top (mostly because they don't change systems/managers/player nationalities every few years).

[GRADY]

Originally Posted by aws If they overtake us it's not the end of the world. We'll have lost some bragging rights.We'll still survive . The most important thing is to re-build properly not to be pressurised into changing systems/managers/player nationalities just because the Mancs continue at the top (mostly because they don't change systems/managers/player nationalities every few years).

Thats fair enough mate and it makes sense. But for me its not just the fact the mancs are going to take over us (which fuckin hurts considering someone of my gernation was 7 years old last time we won the league, and has had to watch them continually win it since) and im not saying it should affect major decision making at the club because that would just be irrational.

However if we dont win anything and struggle to get 4th we are not improving under our new manager and in fact quite the opposite. Other teams are however improving.

I accept that all being well certain players will be better next year - babel immediately springs to mind but if the manager is spending money (however you want to dress it up he spent 40million in the summer), he has spent more time with our players tactically if now we go downhill especially considering we have signed a world class striker than surely something is not right at our club and im not sure you can just blame the owners for that entirely.

[05 Milan]

Originally Posted by aws If they overtake us it's not the end of the world. We'll have lost some bragging rights.We'll still survive . The most important thing is to re-build properly not to be pressurised into changing systems/managers/player nationalities just because the Mancs continue at the top (mostly because they don't change systems/managers/player nationalities every few years).

Spot on.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by aws If they overtake us it's not the end of the world. We'll have lost some bragging rights.We'll still survive . The most important thing is to re-build properly not to be pressurised into changing systems/managers/player nationalities just because the Mancs continue at the top (mostly because they don't change systems/managers/player nationalities every few years).

Of course we will. However, it's about far more than bragging rights. It's about status, tradition, history and identity. I totally agree about re-building properly. However, there has to be clear progression and the players have to believe in the manager. It now seems like this bunch don't believe in Rafa and that is an unsustainable state of affairs for any club.

The situation off the pitch is a disgrace and is obviously the immediate priority. Furthermore it has undoubtedly affected Rafa's ability to do his job and I'm angry on his behalf. However, the problems we've seen with the team are not new and Rafa has shown no real signs of being able to address them.

For me, he is now fighting to save his job like never before and I sincerely hope he does so - both for us and for him. However, I fear exits from both cup competitions and a failure to qualify for Europe are very real possibilities and if the players aren't with him, they'll soon become a reality. In the current financial climate at the club, that can only spell disaster.

He needs our support like never before and I don't doubt he'll get it. However, winning round that dressing room after nearly four years will be a Herculean task.

[cochcaer]

Originally Posted by hamstrung I don't think Rafa is "content" with a top 4 finish. That's a fairly bizarre statement.

Oh do sod off, Reading spoke volumes about Rafa's title intentions.

[Rashid]

I think Rafa is content with 4th, it gets him into the CL and it allows for Moores "minimum requirement" to be fullfilled.

[hamstrung]

Originally Posted by cochcaer Oh do sod off, Reading spoke volumes about Rafa's title intentions.

It spoke of his desire to remain in the champions league. Suggesting he is content with a 4th place finish every season, is quite obviously nonsense.

And sod off yourself.

[05 Milan]

Originally Posted by Rashid I think Rafa is content with 4th, it gets him into the CL and it allows for Moores "minimum requirement" to be fullfilled.

If you think that, then you're an idiot. But we already knew that. Idiot.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Rashid I think Rafa is content with 4th, it gets him into the CL and it allows for Moores "minimum requirement" to be fullfilled.

What has Moores got to do with it?

[Paul]

Originally Posted by cochcaer Oh do sod off, Reading spoke volumes about Rafa's title intentions.

In fairness, Rafa knew at that point that his job depended upon the next result in Europe.