Both debts to be paid by club

[bobhorse]

Originally Posted by Havant&Wart but they own the club, so whatever goes out on players is their money in a sense. no chairman or investor would ever use their actual own money anyway, doesn't make sense. obviously you're closer to the facts than me but from an outsiders point of view, most things look normal.

The club being able to support itself is normal what isn’t normal is for people to use the club to finance loans to enable them to

1) Pay for them to own the club

2) Pay for them to build a new Stadium to make even more money for them to pocket

This club exists for the people of Liverpool to win trophies for the people of Liverpool to give pride and identity to the people of Liverpool through our club
It never was in the thoughts of anyone who had that original vision that it would be used to line the pockets of two Greedy Lying Twats from America

That is want makes this Club so different that is the essence of The Liverpool Way

[AL66GOLF]

This spells big trouble
Current situation £350M loan - Interest of £30m per year (8.5% approx)
Loan to finish stadium £250m - Interest of £21m per year (8.5% approx)
Total Loans / Debt £550m - Total Interest of £51m per year
Additional Revenue with New Stadium 25,000 x £30 per ticket x 27 games = £20m max
Additional Funding required = £30m before any new players are bought
Solution = large increases in Ticket prices or no new players

The Bastards

[Cardie]

The loan for the stadium won't be taken out all at once, it'll be staged over the course of the project so we won't be paying an additional 21 million straight off.

Thinking back to the summer it's a mystery why we can't afford 30 mill in interest. People were, after all, expecting us to spend anywhere between 50 and 80 million on players because of the super duper TV deal.

It'd be better not to have to pay it but it's not quite as crippling as some make out.

[zigackly]

Originally Posted by AL66GOLF This spells big trouble Current situation £350M loan - Interest of £30m per year (8.5% approx) Loan to finish stadium £250m - Interest of £21m per year (8.5% approx) Total Loans / Debt £550m - Total Interest of £51m per year Additional Revenue with New Stadium 25,000 x £30 per ticket x 27 games = £20m max Additional Funding required = £30m before any new players are bought Solution = large increases in Ticket prices or no new players The Bastards

I don't think it's quite that cut and dried. Arsenal made some cash on naming rights (although less than the £100M reported because part of it was for shirt sponsorship, which we already have). We might be able to find a few million a year on increased sponsorship over what we get from Carlsberg. The TV money has gone up about £20M a year. But unless there's some other masterstroke in the wings, it still leaves us with a transfer budget of approximately zero.

[Moschops II]

Originally Posted by zigackly I don't think it's quite that cut and dried. Arsenal made some cash on naming rights (although less than the £100M reported because part of it was for shirt sponsorship, which we already have). We might be able to find a few million a year on increased sponsorship over what we get from Carlsberg. The TV money has gone up about £20M a year. But unless there's some other masterstroke in the wings, it still leaves us with a transfer budget of approximately zero.

Yep. Arsenal were borrowing less money to begin with, plus they sold the naming rights to the stdium, and they still (as I'm sure Rashid will verify) spent very little in the transfer market over the last 3 or 4 years, relative to the rest of the Premiership's upper echelons. In that time, they also sold Vieira and Henry for a combined 30 million.

[Alias75]

Originally Posted by AL66GOLF This spells big trouble Current situation £350M loan - Interest of £30m per year (8.5% approx) Loan to finish stadium £250m - Interest of £21m per year (8.5% approx) Total Loans / Debt £550m - Total Interest of £51m per year Additional Revenue with New Stadium 25,000 x £30 per ticket x 27 games = £20m max Additional Funding required = £30m before any new players are bought Solution = large increases in Ticket prices or no new players The Bastards

Your forgetting the new TV deal which brings in an extra 20 million
And with a new stadium there's the possibility of naming rights i know with Arsenal they had the vast majority paid up front so that could cover almost a third of the total cost, plus of course naming rights is something you can renew so once the first deal is up you can negotiate future deals.
Your also forgetting that a new stadium means more corporate boxes so the increased revenue is more for each home game.

[Section_31]

It was the most obvious bullshit in the world and I'm not even Alan Sugar.

"Don't worry don't worry, some of the debt will be taken on by Kop International!!!"

Erm, where does Kop international get its money from to pay the debts with prey tell?

"Erm, sorry I gotta go get some FUCKING TWINKIES!"

[CWD82]

Originally Posted by AL66GOLF This spells big trouble Current situation £350M loan - Interest of £30m per year (8.5% approx) Loan to finish stadium £250m - Interest of £21m per year (8.5% approx) Total Loans / Debt £550m - Total Interest of £51m per year Additional Revenue with New Stadium 25,000 x £30 per ticket x 27 games = £20m max Additional Funding required = £30m before any new players are bought Solution = large increases in Ticket prices or no new players The Bastards

If you think all these new tickets are going to go to £30 a game fans and season tickets then you're clearly on crack

I reckon we'll be lucky to get half the tickets to be "normal" price split between day tickets and seasies.

The rest are going to be corporate so that people go the game and spend £100 on a ticket and then about another £20 in the bar.

I read a fact some time ago now but can't remember the figures exactly but it was something like United make more from 15000 corporate tickets than we do from selling out.

We're non profitable and unable to compete with United (and soon Arsenal) because we don't target the fat cat end of the market. That will all change when this stadiums built though

[real red]

I think if the figures looked ace, we'd have had a breakdown by now from Hicks and his monkey.

But we've not. Which suggest that at best they look just about ok. Just about.

I think it was Tony Barrett who spoke about us being on a knife's edge and we are. The margins are so thin, and far too reliant on success on the field.

If we finish in the top four, AND get through the qualifier, AND make it out of the group stages, we'll do quite well for cash there. Top four also means quite good prize money in the league. FA Cup and Carling Cup money's not that great from what I remember, but the more games we play the more money we get in the coffers. That, financially speaking, isn't much worse than winning the league. If we can get that every season then we can probably pay off our debts and maybe do a little bit of transfer business, but no more of a level than in past seasons.

Any less than that and we start seeing problems. Transfer dealing at a level of past seasons should in theory be enough to help us stay in the top four, as long as those below us don't start to make big steps to catch up and then overtake us. But anything less and we start seeing ourselves fall to the levels of those below us. A mixture of them improving and us falling back means we're soon out of the top four.

One season out of the top four and we might never get back in. The team that replaces us, already spending more than us, now gets an extra wad from the CL. We're back where we were when this investment search started.

This investment search started when there weren't four CL places for England. We wanted investment because a) we were bringing less money in on the gate and b) we weren't getting CL money. Every year the clubs above us were running away from us on more than one front.

In a way, once we got into the CL on a regular basis we should have sat back and had another think about investment. Did we still need it? I don't think we did. I think we could have done it off our own backs (as a club) and been no worse off than now.

[Moschops II]

Originally Posted by Alias75 Your forgetting the new TV deal which brings in an extra 20 million And with a new stadium there's the possibility of naming rights i know with Arsenal they had the vast majority paid up front so that could cover almost a third of the total cost, plus of course naming rights is something you can renew so once the first deal is up you can negotiate future deals. Your also forgetting that a new stadium means more corporate boxes so the increased revenue is more for each home game.

None of which does much good if while any stadium is being built we're effectively operating on a relegation club's transfer budget. You talk as if we can simply take three (or four, or five, or who knows how many) years off from competing in the transfer market, keep qualifying for the Champions League etc in the meantime, and then just pick up where we left off.

[AL66GOLF]

Originally Posted by CWD82 If you think all these new tickets are going to go to £30 a game fans and season tickets then you're clearly on crack I reckon we'll be lucky to get half the tickets to be "normal" price split between day tickets and seasies. The rest are going to be corporate so that people go the game and spend £100 on a ticket and then about another £20 in the bar. I read a fact some time ago now but can't remember the figures exactly but it was something like United make more from 15000 corporate tickets than we do from selling out. We're non profitable and unable to compete with United (and soon Arsenal) because we don't target the fat cat end of the market. That will all change when this stadiums built though

As regards £30 a ticket I was trying to be conservative!
The point I was trying to make is that it appears that there is not going to be the millions left over for players that we were promised and that some people on here like to think.
All because those two bastards have bough the club we love with our money.
They have broken every promise that they have made so far and I see no reason for them to change now.
They don't give a shit for LFC and the only reason they bought in was to make as much money as possible.
I also see no reason to believe that DIC would be any better although they may have a little more class.

[aws]

Assuming they don't sell out, the yanks are going to want to start taking out dividends for themselves in a couple of years so that's got to be added to the bank interest.

[Mr T]

Originally Posted by Cardie The winner of the league get's 50 million and you get a million less for every position you finish below that. If we finish 4th we'll get about 46 million from the PL which is about the same as we earned from the league and CL combined in 06.

Have you never heard of inflation? If everyone else is going to be getting an increased wedge all that will happen is it will be swallowed up by player's wage inflation. We are going to find transfers difficult for two reasons:

We won't be able to afford these higher wages.
We have no money for transfer fees.

Hence we will fall behind and an accellerating downward momentum will occur. As we lag behind our competitors, we earn less money. The next year our income is even smaller so we fall behind further etc.

[Liverpoolway]

Liverpool will probably sell 10 year deals (or something similar) for the corporate boxes.

[keio]

This may have been asked already (probably dozens of times actually). But did Moores and Parry not get any clauses or financila agreements in place before selling the club?

With my current job I'm involved with the purchasing and selling of many businesses and it is almost always our company's policy to get clauses inserted into the deals which allow us buy the business back if these set requirements / clauses are broken.

I don't understand the whole situation regarding the purchase of football clubs but would this not have been possible like many other private (non-publicly quoted) business or am I just expecting too much from Moores & Parry.