Is it really an injustice?

[Rashid]

Firstly, lets forget the following:

1. The owners are skint.
2. Parry is a cunt and Moores sold us down the river.
3. The owners lied to us from day one.
4. The owners know nothing about football and are only here for the cash.
5. The owners want Rafa out for non-footballing reasons.

Now say DIC came in and we all know Al-Ansari rates Rafa a lot and would give him time, but how much time? Is Rafa being sacked the biggest injustice in football?

There is pressure at every top European club and we are one of the most successful of the lot. Rafa has a 5 year contract but he has also been here for nearly 4 years. CL final's won't be happening every year although it may seem that way, so how do we measure progress?

He has a poor league record (for a club our size), once not even satisfying the clown Moores' minimum requirement. This season we are fighting with Everton and Citeh and not United and Arsenal.

His transfers have generally been good but in nearly four years he has yet to buy a wide player of genuine quality and after about 6 attempts he has finally bought a striker worthy of the name. The current crisis at CB and LB is his own doing after the Heinze debacle last summer where he laid all his eggs in one basket - normally known as transfer suicide. He hasn't had Chelsea money but he hasn't been skint either.

I think us the fans in our hatred for the American's are getting a little carried away with the Rafa thing, he should be under pressure like any manager should. Those that say he doesn't have money should remember it doesn't take huge sums to beat Luton, Wigan and Birmingham etc.

I know Rafa is under pressure and he will go at the end of the season barring new ownership and I would hate the Americans to do it for non-footballing reasons. Rafa deserves 4 full season on the back of that glorious night in May 2005 but it would be dangerous to live off that forever.

Dave Usher said recently on a TLW match report, that whilst he doesn't trust Rafa to buy the players needed for us to challenge, getting rid of the owners first should be the priority. It is hard to argue with that although it does make you question why you would want a manager in charge you don't trust 100%, irrespective of the owners. I think we need to step away from this "poor Rafa" situation and understand that a club like ours should not be fighting each year with Blackburn and Everton for 4th place.

In my opinion, should Rafa not challenge for the league this season then him leaving after 4 years in charge trying to catch Arsenal and Manchester United and failing would not be the huge "injustice" we are building it up to be.

[StevieH]

With new owners and increased funds I would trust Rafa to spend money wisely on quality players. I would be willing to give him another season to see how he would fare with money to buy the players that he wants & not end up with cheaper, inferior players like Pennant and Gonzalez.

[RedinSweden]

What an ace and unique idea for a thread.

[Brownie]

No offence Rash, but it's been done to death in other threads.

[billybonzo]

Nice to see Rashid has moved away from his Anti Benitez Bashing....oh wait a minute....

[G Richards]

I think we might be jumping the gun slightly with Rafa, though the debate over his future, based on results, is certainly valid.

He has finished third and third the past two seasons. Every season he has been here we have qualified for the CL (this is the minimum acceptable level), and of course we have made two finals, winning it a fifth time in Istanbul.

I accept that things have been disappointing in the league of late, but the time to judge this campaign will be at the end of the season. If we finish outside the CL spots then Rafa should, rightly, be under a lot of pressure and will likely go. But if we finish in the CL spots again there will be an obvious decision to be made:

Do we then back Rafa with a couple more of the quality of Torres, so that we have a few match winners in the side and can expect to compete with Man Utd over the course of the season?

Or, if no money, do we bring in a new manager who we think could do better with the same resources as Rafa?

It's a tricky situation, but it's not quite time to judge yet. And besides, I agree 100% that the more pressing concern is what happens with the owners.

[billybonzo]

Dont forget Rashid this is the man who persauded a certain Fernando Torres to join, do you think we would have el nino here now if Rafa wasn't in charge ?

[real red]

And then we start another four years. The first two of which are spent getting nowhere, possibly even finishing lower in the league, because the new manager has to sell half of the squad before he can buy anyone else that would suit his way of playing. He'd also still have to rely on Parry not to fuck the deals up, meaning he might also miss out on targets he identifies.

If he's not managed in this country before then he might turn out to be the worst coach in living memory, regardless of any previous record at other clubs or internationally. That's the risk you take.

If Rafa is to go now then I would expect any replacement to be able to win the league in his first season without having any more funding than Rafa gets. That would be my expectation from the off. Otherwise why change manager?

[Roy Hobbs]

Originally Posted by billybonzo Dont forget Rashid this is the man who persauded a certain Fernando Torres to join, do you think we would have el nino here now if Rafa wasn't in charge ?

An extremely important point. Well said.

[Rashid]

Originally Posted by billybonzo Dont forget Rashid this is the man who persauded a certain Fernando Torres to join, do you think we would have el nino here now if Rafa wasn't in charge ?

Yes, and why not?

This thread is different to the others, I want it to solely concentrate on this "poor Rafa" scenario which I think is bollocks. £3M a year and a contract paid off if he is sacked... my heart doesn't bleed.

The American's are cunts but that doesn't excuse Rafa's deficiencies. Finish way off the pace in the league and he should be sacked anyway.

[G Richards]

Originally Posted by Rashid The American's are cunts but that doesn't excuse Rafa's deficiencies. Finish way off the pace in the league and he should be sacked anyway.

But don't jump the gun. We don't know where we'll finish yet.

[real red]

What we need is stability. Rafa should be backed for the next two seasons at least, to see us through the turmoil of the change in ownership and the start of the new stadium being built (if that ever happens).

If the owners don't want to add to the transfer kitty that's fine - annoying but we'll live. They just need to say that. Admit that there'll be no extra transfer money until the stadium is bringing in the money for it. And with that in mind also say they are not setting Rafa any targets other than top four in the league and perhaps knockout stage of the Champions League.

Two seasons on and some of the youngsters he's signed this last year or so might be starting to show us if they're capable of being a part of the first-team squad. We won't need to spend as much money on 'squad players' then - meaning we can spend our normal transfer kitty on quality players.

Compared to how things have been, I'd be quite happy to hear the owners back Rafa as manager and announce that transfer funds won't be increasing until the stadium is built.

There's too much panic at the moment.

[billybonzo]

Originally Posted by Rashid Yes, and why not? This thread is different to the others, I want it to solely concentrate on this "poor Rafa" scenario which I think is bollocks. £3M a year and a contract paid off if he is sacked... my heart doesn't bleed. The American's are cunts but that doesn't excuse Rafa's deficiencies. Finish way off the pace in the league and he should be sacked anyway.

Rahid you really are a sky generation Andy Gray worshipping twat aren't you, i bet you love his final word show and hang on everything he says, well let me tell you something, he Knows fuck all and guess what, so do you.

[HJohal]

It has taken Rafa 4 years to build the spine of the team which is the hardest part of a team to assemble.

We are a support forward short to partner Torres and then we can start on the finishing touches, namely the wide flair players.

2005 Spine - Dudek, Carragher, Hyppia, Gerrard, Hamman, Cisse, Baros
2008 Spine - Reina, Carragher, Agger, Gerrard, Alonso/Mascherano, Torres, Kuyt

Unfortunately it looks like he will not be given time or money to finish the job, and the main fear is that the likes of Reina, Alonso, Mascherano and Torres may leave with him and put us virtually back to 2005 when he started.

[KevieG]

I firmly believe that Rafa is not the man to take us to no19.

We are too cautious against complete and utter shite and his obession with over analyzing things has cost us points. There have been a few watersheds but dropping torres for 2 league games when we were actually building momentum (which we lost) and then giving him the full 90 and let him get kicked all over the park against Reading stands out. That one still baffles me, especially as he had no interest in that competition anyway

The persistance with Kuyt is another bug bear, the man's confidence is at rock bottom and he shouldn't be in the team over Crouch.

His transfer policy is questionable. Sure, there have been good buys, but there have also been strange decisions. It seems that two avergae players over one quality one is acceptable. The money spent on Babel, Lucas and Benayoun was needed elsewhere, its was plainly obvious. Now we are suffering because of it. Sissoko should have been sold last summer.

Finally I think morale in the squad is low.

This was the year in which we were supposed to compete. It hasn't happened and the buck stops with Rafa.

[KevieG]

Originally Posted by billybonzo Dont forget Rashid this is the man who persauded a certain Fernando Torres to join, do you think we would have el nino here now if Rafa wasn't in charge ?

Wasn't Eto our first choice?

[RedKnight]

Poor Rafa.