Is it really an injustice?

[ratcatcher]

Originally Posted by bossy Fucking stupid thread started by a man who hates Houllier, loves Ince and doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

LOL!

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Originally Posted by KevieG But do you accept the point that our net spend is more or less the same? We do things like spend 10 million on 2 keepers on the same day. Spent 7 million back in 94 on Babb and Scales. Keep throwing 10 millions away on the likes on Heskey, Diouf and Kuyt. It all adds up. I firmly believed United out spent us until I looked this up a few weeks ago and was shocked at the level of wastage over the last 15 years. Its going slightly off the original topic but Rafa is almost as culpable as Houllier in this regard.

For me our Net spend is only the same as theirs or very close because of Rafa. Rafa has been able to shift all of Houlliers shite, and the majority of his own.

I don't get how United's net spend is similar to ours, Look at what they have spent on Ferdinand, Anderson, Nani, Veron, Staam, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Rooney, Hargreaves, Carrick to name a few, there is over £200 million spent on those players alone.

Maybe it's just me thinking that we had not spent as much, net, as United.

But those players I have mentioned back up my arguement of paying big bucks for top quality.

You pay the money, you reap the rewards.

This whole saga is making people look right down the slightest thing to prove Rafa is no good.

I once again beg to differ. He has bought shite, and 9 times out of 10, he will flog them on if they do not cut the mustard.

Plus our net spend would have been lower if it wasn't for us treating Mcmananman like a twat over the Barcelona transfer, and losing him on a free, and if Owen hadn't have led us on for so long.

The net spend arguement has been going for far too long.

[Moschops II]

Originally Posted by KevieG They are pretty much spot on. All I'm doing is showing that the money issue is overblown and dare I say it, being used as an excuse. This club has been wasting money on shit players for 15 years and its time people woke up and smelled the coffee. You should take a look at our transfers over that time, its frightening. Look what wenger has done with a tiny(relatively speaking) net spend in his time.

Finished below us in both the last two seasons?

[Rashid]

Rafa makes a lot of the fact that he didn't spend money at Valencia. In fact he mentioned that money isn't everything when it comes to success. How times change eh Rafa?

Secondly lets leave Arsenal out of it because when you look at their NET spend (and remember Rafa has been using NET spend all year with the Americans) it is ridiculous to suggest they should finish above us.

Lastly Fergie took seven years but how many do? Most if not all of the managers of the past 15 years both here and abroad won the league (if they did at all) in their first three seasons - Rafa included.

I don't like the style of play and his teams are very robotic and in view of the league results I think he has taken us as far as he can - May will tell us the answer but it is hardly an injustice.

[TK421]

Money isn't everything but it helps. Rafa was successful early in his Liverpool career on quite a modest budget. A CL and FA Cup win - not to be sniffed at, unless you're a spoiled brat.

[Moschops II]

Originally Posted by Rashid Secondly lets leave Arsenal out of it because when you look at their NET spend (and remember Rafa has been using NET spend all year with the Americans) it is ridiculous to suggest they should finish above us.

By which logic it's also "ridiculous" to expect us to finish above the Mancs or Chelsea.

[Rashid]

BIAWC - "Liverpool's spending has not matched big clubs", Rafa Benitez December 13 2007 | Source and credit: http://www.themuppet.utvinternet.com/ - All their work, I've just uploaded it for people without Microsoft Excel and made some changes.

[Rashid]

I got that from a United forum and it makes interesting reading.

[WeAreTheBest]

Originally Posted by Rashid I got that from a United forum and it makes interesting reading.

Do you know the figures are accurate then?

[Rashid]

Originally Posted by WeAreTheBest Do you know the figures are accurate then?

I just got the link (as I saved it) but can't find the thread now. The lad was challenged by LFC fans and he came out well on top.. he had a full Excel sheet of every transfer of the top 4 clubs since 1992... we have spend NET more than United.

[Moschops II]

Originally Posted by WeAreTheBest Do you know the figures are accurate then?

It's already been posted on here by someone else - Torres was listed as having cost £26 million.

Anyway, fuck it, what am I doing arguing with Rashid on the internet? Life, better things, to do...

[Rashid]

Give or take a few million Chops but we haven't been the paupers we paint ourselves to be this past 15 years we just haven't had decent enough managers to challenge to Wenger and Ferguson.

[CWD82]

Originally Posted by Rashid Secondly lets leave Arsenal out of it because when you look at their NET spend (and remember Rafa has been using NET spend all year with the Americans) it is ridiculous to suggest they should finish above us. .

They haven't for the last two years and struggled woefully in the league both seasons

Would it be improbable to suggest that Arsenal this season are a fluke and they're overachieving considering the normal position they finish on during Benitez reign?

[Moschops II]

Originally Posted by CWD82 They haven't for the last two years and struggled woefully in the league both seasons Would it be improbable to suggest that Arsenal this season are a fluke and they're overachieving considering the normal position they finish on during Benitez reign?

Yeah, oddly, I don't remember many people on here talking about Wenger's incomparable genius when Arsenal needed half the Spurs first-team squad to to be shitting their underwear in order to qualify for the next season's Champions League.

[Moschops II]

Originally Posted by Skidfingers McGonical For me our Net spend is only the same as theirs or very close because of Rafa. Rafa has been able to shift all of Houlliers shite, and the majority of his own. I don't get how United's net spend is similar to ours, Look at what they have spent on Ferdinand, Anderson, Nani, Veron, Staam, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Rooney, Hargreaves, Carrick to name a few, there is over £200 million spent on those players alone. Maybe it's just me thinking that we had not spent as much, net, as United. But those players I have mentioned back up my arguement of paying big bucks for top quality.

Yep - given how often we hear people talking about the need to spend big on star players, the fact is United were spending £30 million on one player two seasons in a row while our transfer record was still the £11 million we spent on Heskey.

[The Chimp]

Originally Posted by King Emlyn I'm on the fence with Benitez, he's obviously a top coach but i hate the constant chopping and changing. However i think it would be foolish to sack him. We need to see his youth policy come to fruition, there could be some real cracking players coming through and anyway lets face, it it's not as if he hasn't had success already. I would advocate giving him another three to four seasons as long as we don't drop outside the top four and it becomes glaringly obvious that he's a busted flush. More than all of that though, i hate the way a thoroughly decent man is being treated, it makes my blood boil at times. Don't get me wrong, i think he makes some baffling decisions and his constant mass changes do my bloody head in and believe me i can "knee jerk" with the best of them following a dissapointing performance, but my considered opinion is that we need to see the whole plan through, not least because to sack him now would take us right back to the drawing board. In any case the priority is to get rid of dumb and dumber imo.

I find it hard to disagree with anything in there - a fantastic post. There just aren't any candidates who I think could be guaranteed to come in and change things around quickly. As I've mentioned before, there are a lot of good team