Is it really an injustice? - Page 4

Dirk · #76 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by stringvest

A pointless exercise, Dirk, as so many of the variables are subjective in i) which to choose/exclude, ii) how much weighting would be applied iii) how to measure things like 'personal attributes'. But good luck with it - I just don't think that the results will be anything more than a subjective statement.

That's why I'm not doing the part relating to unknown variance because there are too many variables that are too difficult to measure. I'm just doing time in charge (If I assess a period over a number of years and then divide the number of managers by that period, I'd get a figure for average time in charge per manager), money spent and points. All are objective, interval level data.

stringvest · #77 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dirk

That's why I'm not doing the part relating to unknown variance because there are too many variables that are too difficult to measure. I'm just doing time in charge (If I assess a period over a number of years and then divide the number of managers by that period, I'd get a figure for average time in charge per manager), money spent and points. All are objective, interval level data.

ah ok - but then you don't have the full picture :) There must be an excel jockey on here with fuck all to do that could knock this up in half a day - put the feelers out!

Dirk · #78 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by stringvest

ah ok - but then you don't have the full picture :) There must be an excel jockey on here with fuck all to do that could knock this up in half a day - put the feelers out!

I have a programme called SPSS, it's a statistics package that I use for university. Excel wouldn't be powerful enough, that would just give me ratios of money spent to points gained, I want to go beyond that, probably do an ANOVA.

KevieG · #79 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 12:57 PM

stan collymore's "personal attributes" should be good.

just do a net spend. and the amount of trophies won. make it independent of managers, do it on a club basis.

WaltonRed · #80 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 01:01 PM

What will it achieve, what we already know? the more you spend the better you do.

stringvest · #81 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dirk

I have a programme called SPSS, it's a statistics package that I use for university. Excel wouldn't be powerful enough, that would just give me ratios of money spent to points gained, I want to go beyond that, probably do an ANOVA.

you're joking. Excel would do that without breaking sweat. I'm no Microsoft Buddy, but I have seen Excel used for financial modelling in several investment banks, performing much more complicated stuff than this. This - and doing any anovas - would be a piece of piss, seriously.

DJLJ · #82 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by stringvest

you're joking. Excel would do that without breaking sweat. I'm no Microsoft Buddy, but I have seen Excel used for financial modelling in several investment banks, performing much more complicated stuff than this. This - and doing any anovas - would be a piece of piss, seriously.

Agree. The wife spends all day in Excel, doing forecasting, trends analysis etc. and it can easily do these things. vb scripting and what not. Single threaded crap application.

Dirk · #83 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by stringvest

you're joking. Excel would do that without breaking sweat. I'm no Microsoft Buddy, but I have seen Excel used for financial modelling in several investment banks, performing much more complicated stuff than this. This - and doing any anovas - would be a piece of piss, seriously.

Ah well, I was taught to do it using SPSS, it's also a piece of piss. SPSS is more accurate and more powerful.

Use of Excel for Statistical Analysis

wiiksie · #84 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dirk

Ah well, I was taught to do it using SPSS, it's also a piece of piss. SPSS is more accurate and more powerful.

Use of Excel for Statistical Analysis

Don't get drawn into a nerd war Dirk, run while you have the chance.

KevieG · #85 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 01:15 PM

Don't know whether this site has an agenda or not, the site name seems to be havign a go at Rafa, and I have only glanced at it but it seems thorough enough.

Some interesting reading. They have gotten some fees wrong, Torres for example is down as 26 million, but overall i think its fairly accurate. Every transfer seems to be included.

ttp://biawc.110mb.com/

here are the final findings, its an eye opener even if not 100% right

Net Spend 1992/93 to 2007/2008 Seasons
In Out Total Net Average Per Year
Chelsea £486.720.000 £145.050.000 £341.670.000 £22.778.000
Liverpool £309.040.000 £134.230.000 £174.810.000 £11.654.000
Newcastle £275.446.000 £133.225.000 £142.221.000 £9.481.400
United £337.700.000 £177.340.500 £160.359.500 £10.690.633
Tottenham £209.380.000 £92.502.500 £116.877.500 £7.791.833
Arsenal £216.930.000 £155.054.000 £61.876.000 £4.125.067

Net Spend 04/05 to 07/08 Season
In Out Total Net Average per year

Mourinho £349.930.000 £76.700.000 £162.930.000 £54.310.000
Benitez £149.100.000 £65.430.000 £83.670.000 £27.890.000
Fergie £144.220.000 £65.050.000 £79.170.000 £26.390.000
Newcastle £96.600.000 £44.750.000 £51.850.000 £17.283.333
Jol £111.700.000 £54.650.000 £57.050.000 £19.016.667
Wenger £76.690.000 £68.570.000 £8.120.000 £2.706.667

stringvest · #86 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by weeksie

Don't get drawn into a nerd war Dirk, run while you have the chance.

ha! I'm not a nerd, I certainly don't get my hands dirty with this stuff - I have my minions to do that.

I do know what it can do though. And I have used SAS, at least ten years ago.

Dirk that report was donkeys years ago - several lifetimes in software terms. Excel's miles better now. However, not everything improves in a linear relative fashion, otherwise as you know we'd still be winning the league every other year.

bossy · #87 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 08:23 PM

Fucking stupid thread started by a man who hates Houllier, loves Ince and doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

hamstrung · #88 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by KevieG

Some interesting reading. They have gotten some fees wrong, Torres for example is down as 26 million, but overall i think its fairly accurate. Every transfer seems to be included.

Well there's a �6-8M inaccuracy right there which would reduce the average. Unless they are all pretty much spot on, its completely pointless.

wiiksie · #89 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by hamstrung

Well there's a �6-8M inaccuracy right there which would reduce the average. Unless they are all pretty much spot on, its completely pointless.

Isn't net spend a shite analytical tool anyway? I thought that was pretty much forum law now?

Stu Monty · #90 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by KevieG

We broke it with Beardsley and Saunders, we also paid good money to bring Rush back.

Personally I think United really only started blowing us away financially from the mid nineties onwards.

All I'm saying really is money isn't the main problem here. Wenger is working on a smaller budget than us for years

And finishing beneath Benitez.

If you don't have more money then one thing you definitely will need it time. How can people not see that? If someone has spent big in the past and is now spending at least as much as you just to top it up then you're fighting a losing battle.

Ferguson and Grant are driving Ferrari's

Wenger and Benitez are driving inferior cars...but two out of the three years Benitez has trumped Wenger.

Section_31 · #91 (**permalink**) 7th January 2008, 08:43 PM