a shit hanging from a stick, is it art?

[Bob Spunkmouse]

English teams are robbing game of skill, says Valdano

Sid Lowe in Madrid
Tuesday May 8, 2007
The Guardian

The former Real Madrid coach and World Cup winner Jorge Valdano has attacked Rafael Benítez and Jose Mourinho, insisting that they are ushering in a bleak future for football and likening the Champions League semi-final between Liverpool and Chelsea to "a sh*t hanging from a stick".

The Argentinian, who scored in the 1986 World Cup final and has a respected reputation as a football intellectual, claimed that Mourinho and Benítez mistrust talent because of their own failure to make it as players and said their approach is bad news for the game.

Writing in Spain's best-selling newspaper, Marca, Valdano insisted: "Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion - and, in that, Anfield is unbeatable. Put a sh*t hanging from a stick in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's a sh*t hanging from a stick.

"Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct," he added. "But, a short pass? Noooo. A feint? Noooo. A change of pace? Noooo. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that. The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill.

"If Didier Drogba was the best player in the first match it was purely because he was the one who ran the fastest, jumped the highest and crashed into people the hardest. Such extreme intensity wipes away talent, even leaving a player of Joe Cole's class disoriented. If football is going the way Chelsea and Liverpool are taking it, we had better be ready to wave goodbye to any expression of the cleverness and talent we have enjoyed for a century."

Valdano explained why Benítez and Mourinho were to blame for the demise of flair and creativity. "The lives of Mourinho and Benítez have crossed in a world that is ever more scrutinised and exposed by the media, which is why they look at each other with such distrust," he wrote, "but they have two things in common: a previously denied, hitherto unsatisfied hunger for glory, and a desire to have everything under control.

"Both of those things stem from one key factor: neither Mourinho nor Benítez made it as a player. That has made them channel all their vanity into coaching. Those who did not have the talent to make it as players do not believe in the talent of players, they do not believe in the ability to improvise in order to win football matches. In short, Benítez and Mourinho are exactly the kind of coaches that Benítez and Mourinho would have needed to have made it as players."

personally i think its a load of old shit, but what do you think?

[Dirk]

Regardless of his points, it made me laugh.

[Franny DelMucho]

Originally Posted by RedRobMol English teams are robbing game of skill, says Valdano Sid Lowe in Madrid Tuesday May 8, 2007 The Guardian The former Real Madrid coach and World Cup winner Jorge Valdano has attacked Rafael Benítez and Jose Mourinho, insisting that they are ushering in a bleak future for football and likening the Champions League semi-final between Liverpool and Chelsea to "a sh*t hanging from a stick". The Argentinian, who scored in the 1986 World Cup final and has a respected reputation as a football intellectual, claimed that Mourinho and Benítez mistrust talent because of their own failure to make it as players and said their approach is bad news for the game. Writing in Spain's best-selling newspaper, Marca, Valdano insisted: "Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion - and, in that, Anfield is unbeatable. Put a sh*t hanging from a stick in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's a sh*t hanging from a stick. "Chelsea and Liverpool are the clearest, most exaggerated example of the way football is going: very intense, very collective, very tactical, very physical, and very direct," he added. "But, a short pass? Noooo. A feint? Noooo. A change of pace? Noooo. A one-two? A nutmeg? A backheel? Don't be ridiculous. None of that. The extreme control and seriousness with which both teams played the semi-final neutralised any creative licence, any moments of exquisite skill. "If Didier Drogba was the best player in the first match it was purely because he was the one who ran the fastest, jumped the highest and crashed into people the hardest. Such extreme intensity wipes away talent, even leaving a player of Joe Cole's class disoriented. If football is going the way Chelsea and Liverpool are taking it, we had better be ready to wave goodbye to any expression of the cleverness and talent we have enjoyed for a century." Valdano explained why Benítez and Mourinho were to blame for the demise of flair and creativity. "The lives of Mourinho and Benítez have crossed in a world that is ever more scrutinised and exposed by the media, which is why they look at each other with such distrust," he wrote, "but they have two things in common: a previously denied, hitherto unsatisfied hunger for glory, and a desire to have everything under control. "Both of those things stem from one key factor: neither Mourinho nor Benítez made it as a player. That has made them channel all their vanity into coaching. Those who did not have the talent to make it as players do not believe in the talent of players, they do not believe in the ability to improvise in order to win football matches. In short, Benítez and Mourinho are exactly the kind of coaches that Benítez and Mourinho would have needed to have made it as players." personally i think its a load of old shit, but what do you think?

He is right with a few things i suppose but to say all creativity is being discouraged is a load of shit. It was a Champions League semi final. What does he expect. One of the most important football matches of the season of course teams are going to take less chances in possession. To be fair though Chelsea are not very pleasing on the eye.

[donmaths]

So Wenger was a great player, wasnt he ? how can he compare Rafa with Maureen, Rafa didnt have the money to buy flair players, who are riskier than defensive players. I dont expect Rafa to play expansive style of Arsenal; but he wont stifle flair players like Maureen, oherwise why should he play Garcia whenever he was available ? Wenger went to a club where they had won premiership recently and had a good defensive setup. Rafa came to a club with comparatively huge expecatations and lack of success.

[Paul]

It's unfair to judge Rafa as harshly as Mourinho simply because he's never had the number of top creative players at his disposal that The Translator has had. I know I keep on saying it, but Rafa's Balenthia produced the most devastating display of attacking football I've ever seen from an opposing side at Anfield and that's why I reserve judgement on his preferred style and tactics until I've seen him how he fairs this summer in the transfer market and in the season that follows. I think we do need to be more creative and attack-orientated (although we mustn'ty lose our competitive aggression or defensive strength); I just don't think we've previously had the players to do it so far.

[El Rojo]

Perhaps he's just bitter because his circus/football club aren't competing in the European Cup Final.

He should still be embarrassed into silence over his whole about-face in bringing that tart Beckham back to the Real fold after swearing he'd never play for the club again.

[Fink]

Perhaps he wants us all to go and get twa77ed 3-0 by milan by being naive then....

[RedAdmiral]

Originally Posted by Paul It's unfair to judge Rafa as harshly as Mourinho simply because he's never had the number of top creative players at his disposal that The Translator has had. I know I keep on saying it, but Rafa's Balenthia produced the most devastating display of attacking football I've ever seen from an opposing side at Anfield and that's why I reserve judgement on his preferred style and tactics until I've seen him how he fairs this summer in the transfer market and in the season that follows. I think we do need to be more creative and attack-orientated (although we mustn'ty lose our competitive aggression or defensive strength); I just don't think we've previously had the players to do it so far.

Spot on!

[JER]

I've never really enjoyed 'show-boating' football that much - football is a serious business and not entertainment. Last tuesday was as nail biting and exciting as it is possible to be - if the shit fits, wear it.

[WaltonRed]

He can suck my plum bag, He's just gutted that Madrid arent in the final and are a shambles. He wishes that everyone went out like headless chickens doing tricks and flicks either that or he wants everyone to lay down and accept an arse kicking of the masters of football Real Madrid.

He can go and ream a dog for all I care.

[RedAdmiral]

When you cant afford the best attacking players, then how can 'attack' be the prefered choice for the boss!

I dont think we have much choice in playing the style we do, it wins us Cups and keeps the fans happy, which is what a massive team like Liverpool must always keep doing!

The media always wank over teams like Spurs and West Ham because oooh their good to watch and play football how its meant to be played! But they are losers and win fuck all season after season!

If Rafa said to his current squad, "ah fuck it, all out-attack from now on!" we would win nothing! The media know all of this but choose to ignore it, because a crisis is always more fun for them than success!

[JER]

My entry for the 'shit hanging' Turner prize - is it art?

[chorlton]

I also thought it was unfair to use that game to criticise. Rivals that dislike each other in a semi final is always going to be cagey. Far more so that usual, and it's always going to be a fight as well.

[King Emlyn]

He's talking out of his arse.

[sir roger]

Valdano played alongside the best player in the world in Maradona , but also played with some extremely'pragmatic' defenders who made Paletta look like John Inman for many years & presumably did not worry too much about their entertainment value at the time.

[Far and Tether]

Also, Maradona knew how to be pragmatic when he needed to be.

That said, there is a school of coaching that emphasises strength and power and what we might call dronelike cogs-in-a-machine type football. I think we see that here in North America, which explains why flair and creativity are such rare aspects of both the MLS and the US national team (Canada even more so). It's a very German approach to the game. Many of us are divided simply because certain personalities prefer the beautiful aspects of the game, others the powerhouse results-oriented styles. Obviously, an amalgam of the two is ideal, although very rare. Personally, I prefer expression, sometimes even at the expense of results. Others prefer winning at all or (most) costs. There is no right or wrong, just different values here.

[The-Sir]

Welcome back F&T.

[Far and Tether]

They're talking about this on their blog, by the way. A lot of people with a lot of opinions.