Time to move forward

[ritchie]

In the last 15 years football has changed rapidly and certainly from our point of view that’s on the pitch as well as off it. In the 90’s football boom - carried on into the 21st century - we have missed the boat. The club has suffered from by and large 15 years of mismanagement on the pitch and to a large degree off the pitch as well. Too many poor signings, too many bad apples, too much time and patience to managers who had clearly taken the club as far as they could and not enough forward thinking from those high up at the club. All this combined has left us in a situation where we haven’t won a league title since 1990 and are getting further away from being champions every year. It was 30 points last season, how many will it be this time around? Don’t get me wrong I think Rafael Benitez was a great appointment and he needs to be given time to build his own team etc but the fact is we are a million miles away from Chelsea and Arsenal on the pitch. And with the club missing the boat in a big way over the last decade, we are a million miles away from Manchester United OFF the pitch.

With the legacy Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley provided and left behind, it just shows some off the bad decisions made at the club in the last 15 years that we are where we are now. The fact is we are now a second rate club; we can go on about our history, we can allude to the fact that we are still English footballs most successful club but that’s half the problem; it’s in the past. As a club we have to start looking to the future, before we are left lagging further behind. It’s a sad fact of modern football but the fact is, it’s all in the here and now that counts; to most people football didn’t exist before Sky television; they will think that our 18 league titles don’t mean much because none of these are Premiership titles; none of our 4 European Cups are Champions League’s. As far as they are concerned it’s ancient history; like Leeds’ success in the 60’s, and as every year passes it is getting more that way. Nottingham Forest prop up the first division in big debt, with no future prospects, clinging onto their two European Cup wins and the Brian Clough era; it’s a situation we certainly want to avoid.

Already we are becoming a selling club and that’s a fact; we’re unfortunate to be in a situation where what Chelsea and Real Madrid want Chelsea and Real Madrid get but Arsenal manage to hold onto their players because they have built something special there and crucially have a new stadium on the way to build a dynasty and keep it all going. A new stadium, always on the lookout for the best kids and a great current team, no stone unturned. This is what we simply have to do, move forward. And we certainly need a forward thinking board. There is no denying the current one have the clubs best interests at heart but when you examine some of the mistakes over the last decade they have to be held accountable. Letting personal friendships cloud professional judgement when leaving Souness, Evans and then Houllier in charge for too long. Letting Steve McManaman and Michael Owen take the piss out of the club by letting their contracts run down, while the club pampered them, the farce of the upper tier of the Anfield Road, ignoring the whole merchandise boom allowing Manchester United to overtake us completely on and off the pitch in the 90’s, the farce that is the clubs ticket office and generally not giving a shit about the fans and allowing a situation where the club is in a rising debt upwards of £20m. Rick Parry deserves a lot of credit for coming into the club and working on these problems but whether he has provided enough credible solutions is debatable. Basically, he can’t do it all himself and that’s because the help, resources and general contribution has got to be given from higher up than him. If any other club were mismanaged like we have been there would have been serious supporter unrest and probably protests. Now we wouldn’t do anything like that would we? We’re Liverpool fans, we’ve got a bit of class about us, even if it means being taken for a ride time and again. That makes us part of the problem in my opinion.

The whole mentality of the club is stuck in the past. You go to Anfield these days and the ground is a morgue most of the time and full of moaning arses who can’t accept the fact that the team aren’t playing like the 88 side. It hasn’t been as bad this season as we have been by and large very good at home but it only takes one bad performance to set these people off. There will be plenty of fans sat quietly for 90 minutes, complaining that the atmosphere isn’t what it was or how this player and that player aren’t good enough to be playing for Liverpool, while slagging them off and groaning at every misplaced pass. The Centenary Stand and the Main Stand are dead, the only real singing in the Anfield Road end is from the away fans and even the Kop is quiet apart from small sections. The ground is full of fans who have been going for years and maybe got stuck in a rut and a general routine, they will complain about how it’s not what it used to be but they wouldn’t dream of giving up their season ticket to one of the thousands of fans desperate to go and support the club. Basically it is time to leave the old Anfield behind as the club and fans need reinvigorating. By moving all the lads and fans who are on the waiting list will finally be able to go and it will be a new lease of life for everyone and we will be able to start a new chapter at the club, finally leaving the old one behind hopefully. Sure, we will honour ex legends, be proud of the clubs heritage, tradition and history but we can’t let it be to the detriment of the clubs present and future anymore. That’s not what Shanks or Paisley would have wanted.

Now I know that our new stadium at Stanley Park is what the club are building for and a ground share is the last thing we want but we have to stick it out and see it through. And in doing so it’s my belief that a new board of directors should lead the club into the new stadium. What is certain is that he/they they have to provide the right deal and resources for the club and have the right plans for the clubs future, making the right decisions.

Time to move forward…

[Bellflower]

Fair enough comments Ritchie, but what you've got to bear in mind is that LFC was virtually in a state of mourning at the birth of the Premier League, and a lot of the commercial implications were not realised. Ever since it has been a case of catch-up and opportunities apparently ignored, it took over 70 years to get perimeter advertising so things were never going to happen that quick !

[Stu Monty]

Arsenal are a selling club far more than we are. Overmars, Anelka, Petit.

We are not sliding into debt.

We do not need investment we need to spend the money we earn year on year wisely and progress steadily.

Current attitude of too many fans: "I want my sweeties NOW mummy!!!"

[fagus]

some very good points made by ritchie, i think one of the problems at the club has been the appointment of staff,i think in modern football you need to get the best man for each job from manager down to people at the accademy,we now have one of the top managers in europe which is great.
under gh i would question the quality of our scouting system,when you think of some of the shite we bought you have to wonder if anybody went out and scouted and if they did did they have the balls to say to gh that the players he wanted were not good enough. also i dont want anybody to think this is a dig at phil thompson but when gh needed a coach to work with him the board suggested thompson becausce he was a liverpool man ,the fact he had been out of football for 5 years did not seem to matter,to me that sums the board up their heart is in the club but you need brains as well as heart

[Steve]

Originally Posted by fagus

some very good points made by ritchie, i think one of the problems at the club has been the appointment of staff,i think in modern football you need to get the best man for each job from manager down to people at the accademy,we now have one of the top managers in europe which is great.
under gh i would question the quality of our scouting system,when you think of some of the shite we bought you have to wonder if anybody went out and scouted and if they did did they have the balls to say to gh that the players he wanted were not good enough. also i dont want anybody to think this is a dig at phil thompson but when gh needed a coach to work with him the board suggested thompson becausce he was a liverpool man ,the fact he had been out of football for 5 years did not seem to matter,to me that sums the board up their heart is in the club but you need brains as well as heart

There were plenty of scouts alright, trouble was half of them didnt know about the existence of the other half. GH had a French network that Alex Miller, Ron Yeats and co werent aware of, they had assumed GH did his own scouting in France. For reasons known only to GH there are no scouting reports whatsoever on Cheyrou, Diouf, Diao and Luzi as Benitez has asked for them and been told as much. This raises questions as to just what went on in our transfer dealings that summer.

[glen buck]

It's a good, well written and intelligent piece, most of which I agree with. But I'm not sure how Ritchie equates moving ground with re-invigorating the fans and improving the atmosphere. For a start most of those on the ST waiting list will already be going to most games anyway. And off the top of my head I can't think of one club who has reaped any real benefit from building a new ground, either in terms of on field success, or by improving the atmosphere. They tend to be soulless, especially after any initial impact has worn off and it could possibly have the opposite effect to that being suggested by Ritchie, ie killing what remains of the atmosphere off altogether.
It may not happen anywhere near often enough these days, but the old ground is still a pretty special place to be for the big occasion. I very much doubt if the new stadium will be able to recreate the atmospheres of big Euro nights like against Olympiakos the other week.
And since we stopped being successful, the ground itself is one of the things that we are best known for. Anfield is renowned for being a special place, and is respected by fans and players alike throughout Europe in a way the new place will arguably never be.
In case you hadn't guessed, I'm not in favour of us moving to the new ground, but not to the point I lose sleep over it. I could never be one of those who threaten to stop going over the matter (though even I could be seriously tempted if they do eventually groundshare or move away from the Anfield area).
But if, or probably when it does happen, I very much doubt it will have the effect Ritchie seems to think it will.
I'm just hoping it doesn't make things worse, because I don't trust the club to go down the road of finding ways of attracting the locals who don't go any more, or the local kids who should be the future of the clubs support. Mainly because to do this, it most likely means selling tickets cheaply and I suspect the opposite will be true.
More executive boxes, more hospitality packages, more money orientated "fans" resulting in an even worse atmosphere than there is at the moment, especially as it won't be full as often. Even a bigger crowd than what we normally attract now of say 50,000 will mean 10,000 empty seats, the sight of which tends to destroy the atmosphere straight away.
My God I'm pessimistic aren't I?

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Steve horton

There were plenty of scouts alright, trouble was half of them didnt know about the existence of the other half. GH had a French network that Alex Miller, Ron Yeats and co werent aware of, they had assumed GH did his own scouting in France. For reasons known only to GH there are no scouting reports whatsoever on Cheyrou, Diouf, Diao and Luzi as Benitez has asked for them and been told as much. This raises questions as to just what went on in our transfer dealings that summer.

Maybe GH was a master of Championship Manager too??

[ritchie]

Originally Posted by glen buck

It's a good, well written and intelligent piece, most of which I agree with. But I'm not sure how Ritchie equates moving ground with re-invigorating the fans and improving the atmosphere. For a start most of those on the ST waiting list will already be going to most games anyway. And off the top of my head I can't think of one club who has reaped any real benefit from building a new ground, either in terms of on field success, or by improving the atmosphere. They tend to be soulless, especially after any initial impact has worn off and it could possibly have the opposite effect to that being suggested by Ritchie, ie killing what remains of the atmosphere off altogether.
It may not happen anywhere near often enough these days, but the old ground is still a pretty special place to be for the big occasion. I very much doubt if the new stadium will be able to recreate the atmospheres of big Euro nights like against Olympiakos the other week.
And since we stopped being successful, the ground itself is one of the things that we are best known for. Anfield is renowned for being a special place, and is respected by fans and players alike throughout Europe in a way the new place will arguably never be.
In case you hadn't guessed, I'm not in favour of us moving to the new ground, but not to the point I lose sleep over it. I could never be one of those who threaten to stop going over the matter (though even I could be seriously tempted if they do eventually groundshare or move away from the Anfield area).
But if, or probably when it does happen, I very much doubt it will have the effect Ritchie seems to think it will.
I'm just hoping it doesn't make things worse, because I don't trust the club to go down the road of finding ways of attracting the locals who don't go any more, or the local kids who should be the future of the clubs support. Mainly because to do this, it most likely means selling tickets cheaply and I suspect the opposite will be true.
More executive boxes, more hospitality packages, more money orientated "fans" resulting in an even worse atmosphere than there is at the moment, especially as it won't be full as often. Even a bigger crowd than what we normally attract now of say 50,000 will mean 10,000 empty seats, the sight of which tends to destroy the atmosphere straight away.
My God I'm pessimistic aren't I?

The thing is Glen it gives us the opportunity to improve the atmosphere. We can create a decent singing section in the kop without having to move people out of their seats for a start. Also we can put the away fans at the side of the pitch, which will let the two ends bounce off each other, also creating decent banter with the away fans.

With the right design and decent accoustics it can work IMO. You are probably right in saying that a new ground hasn't really improved the atmosphere at most grounds but what ground has got a good atmosphere these days? I'm not saying it will be as good as or anything like the old Anfield but it will be better than the atmosphere at the moment IMO and will help the club move forward on and off the pitch, which is what we have to start doing.

[Salte]

My local club just moved to a new stadium a year ago. The attendance increased almost 100%, and the atmosphere has been brilliant all season (even tho they did far worse than expected, and the supporters have been known only to sing when they're winning AND playing well). This is down to two main factors: the old stadium was pretty bad and the new stadium is brilliant. In Liverpools case Anfield is by no means an old crappy stadium, but if the new one is desingned right, i think it could both increase attendances and provide a better atmosphere.