what a performance

[dave u]

Originally Posted by Gav

Tad harsh there Paul, always like Bascombes reports, and his articles in TLW in the old days were superb.

Eh? What articles?

[Paul]

Originally Posted by chrisb

Grade A in English literature at A LEVEL.
Degree in English from Liverpool University.
Two journalist of the year awards in two years.
Here endeth the lesson.

Twat.

If you are indeed Chris Bascombe, allow me to elucidate: I find your style patronising and cliche ridden. I am well aware that you have to write under an editorial policy, but I don't see your colleagues going for the "tenuous pun of the day" award in every single piece of copy they submit.

Maybe it is unfair to compare you to Henry Winter who's more experienced and writes for an entirely different readership; but who are your readers? The single-celled amoebae of Merseyside? You only have to read the letters page to see that many Echo readers are capable of stringing together a sentence that contains more than one clause, let alone being able to read one. And anyway, the point made by Chris Smith (I think) is a spurious one: all the nationals invest huge sums in their sports coverage (even the red tops; well, The Mirror at least - I've got no interest in that other rag) and no longer exclusively print patronising bilge that a six year old could cope with. Brian Reade and Oliver Holt both write for a readership broadly similar to The Echo's, yet avoid patronising their readers.

On your specific "riposte", if you want to compare qualifications, I can go one better with a post-grad - but who fucking cares? I don't need a piece of paper to justify my opinion. You're a professional writer who offers up his stuff for public consumption. If you can't take the criticism, stop doing the job. Or should I now expect to find you recanting your criticisms of Liverpool failures?

I've no personal axe to grind about you; I don't know you. However, I do know your writing as I pay to read it (in the knowledge that what you print about the club will have some foundation in truth); and I think you could do better. You're obviously a big Red, but you're in a privileged position. Why not aim a little higher? If my opinion makes me a twat then fair enough - but it's a valid opinion because I partially pay your wages.

Care to respond (I'm genuinely interested), or are you a one-post wonder?

[Paul]

Originally Posted by BatChainPuller

Ahhh - thought that was his signature-line



LMAO !

So did I - and likewise at VV's Harry Harris line.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Chris

Like you'd know anything about it, other than the bandwagon you've jumped on.

Funny enough ,yeah I do know about it.Chris do you think cos you are studying to be a journo that no-one else can be right about em ????Are you that Naive that you think these guys don't have their opinions decided for them by the highest bidder ???

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Gav

Funny enough ,yeah I do know about it.Chris do you think cos you are studying to be a journo that no-one else can be right about em ????Are you that Naive that you think these guys don't have their opinions decided for them by the highest bidder ???

Studying? er...no. Full time for a national press agency now.

And the very fact that you're complaining about newsapers and journalists means you're reading and buying the paper's which at the end of the day is all that matters to them.

Sold to the highest bidder? you are the highest bidder...hook, line and sinker.

And i'm the naive one? Right.

[aws]

Chris - well done on getting your new job - really pleased for you mate.

But you're going to have to get used to the fact that you've joined the ranks of lawyers,politicians,estate agents,etc. in a profession which is not always as fully appreciated as it might be ;-)

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Chris

Studying? er...no. Full time for a national press agency now.

And the very fact that you're complaining about newsapers and journalists means you're reading and buying the paper's which at the end of the day is all that matters to them.

Sold to the highest bidder? you are the highest bidder...hook, line and sinker.

And i'm the naive one? Right.

D'you remember the old saying about assume ????? Worth remembering Chris
My congratulations on passing your exams and going fulltime by the way.Didn't know that .Fair dues.
In relation to your assumption.You couln't be further from the truth.Havn't bought a paper ( except LOCAL) in years.
I don't understand where you are coming from here - Have you taken it as a personal insult due to my opinion on Jouro's ????
Is that where this "attitude " is coming from ????
Hook line etc !!!! couldn't be further away.

By the way , I deal with "them" on a daily basis

[Scouse Missionary]

Congratulations Chris.

We look forward to you becoming a cynical sports hack so we can slag you off on here.....

[Stu Monty]

ChrisB & Chris, I know exactly where you're coming from but to say that someone in a redtop writing for morons using basic english and stupid over the top hyperbole is the equal of a reporter writing eloquently, and with complicated use of language, is in my opinion wrong.

Writing is an art. It's like saying that Girls aloud are the equal of Radiohead or Pink Floyd because they aim at an audience that knows nothing about sophisticated music.

Not saying the redtop writers can't do it. Just that if they don't then they can't hold thier writing up against the broadsheets.

Comments?

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Stu Monty

Writing is an art. It's like saying that Girls aloud are the equal of Radiohead or Pink Floyd because they aim at an audience that knows nothing about sophisticated music.
Comments?

what a analogy !!! fuckin top class .

[MLB]

The trouble with sports journalism nowadays is that no one with real writing talent wants to do it. There are literally only a handful of good sports journalists in this country, and most of them are of the "old school" variety (Hugh McIlvanney, etc.) The rest peddle the same brand of one-size-fits-all, lowest common denominator horseshit. But then that's just a reflection of society and culture in general, isn't it?

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Paul

If you are indeed Chris Bascombe, allow me to elucidate: I find your style patronising and cliche ridden. I am well aware that you have to write under an editorial policy, but I don't see your colleagues going for the "tenuous pun of the day" award in every single piece of copy they submit.

Maybe it is unfair to compare you to Henry Winter who's more experienced and writes for an entirely different readership; but who are your readers? The single-celled amoebae of Merseyside? You only have to read the letters page to see that many Echo readers are capable of stringing together a sentence that contains more than one clause, let alone being able to read one. And anyway, the point made by Chris Smith (I think) is a spurious one: all the nationals invest huge sums in their sports coverage (even the red tops; well, The Mirror at least - I've got no interest in that other rag) and no longer exclusively print patronising bilge that a six year old could cope with. Brian Reade and Oliver Holt both write for a readership broadly similar to The Echo's, yet avoid patronising their readers.

On your specific "riposte", if you want to compare qualifications, I can go one better with a post-grad - but who fucking cares? I don't need a piece of paper to justify my opinion. You're a professional writer who offers up his stuff for public consumption. If you can't take the criticism, stop doing the job. Or should I now expect to find you recanting your criticisms of Liverpool failures?

I've no personal axe to grind about you; I don't know you. However, I do know your writing as I pay to read it (in the knowledge that what you print about the club will have some foundation in truth); and I think you could do better. You're obviously a big Red, but you're in a privileged position. Why not aim a little higher? If my opinion makes me a twat then fair enough - but it's a valid opinion because I partially pay your wages.

Care to respond (I'm genuinely interested), or are you a one-post wonder?

Woah there, this is worth coming back for, an opportunity to verbally joust with the Echo back-stabber himself. Bring it on. If he's the genuine article of course (genuine and article never having come together during ChrisB's career before). Knife sharpened for Moores yet Chris? He may be gone soon you know.

[Beni]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Woah there, this is worth coming back for, an opportunity to verbally joust with the Echo back-stabber himself. Bring it on. If he's the genuine article of course (genuine and article never having come together during ChrisB's career before). Knife sharpened for Moores yet Chris? He may be gone soon you know.

Exactly who is he supposed to have stabbed in the back? Houllier? The man who, when things were not going his way, vented his frustration on Bascombe and the Echo. The man who demanded editorial control over his work. And this was as far back as the 2002-2003 season when Bascombe was one of Houllier's most ardent supporters in the media. The slightest innocuous comment in Bascombe's match report would send Houllier into a rage. He banned him from Melwood on several occasions and could have effectively cost him his job.

I thought Bascombe made a very brave stance last season when he effectively went for broke and called the Houllier regime for what it was. Had Houllier survived the summer then Bascombe would have been lucky to have a job, his position would have been untenable as Houllier's hand would have been strengthend. Who would Chris have covered? Marine?

So when Bascombe makes the odd comment about Houllier's regime, I think he deserves it. And what exactly has he said that was so untrue? Right to the end that mad French man-child excluded Chris from his departing press conference. You know the one where he was sacked by mutual agreement- against his will.

Regarding his writing style, I think he is excellent. He has to walk the thin line between inclusionism and expression. I am generally more at home with The Guardian, The Telegraph, Independant etc than the down market dumned down red tops, but I go out of my way to read Chris' entertaining match reports, which are a class above anything I have read in a red top.

Henry Winter is an exceptional football writer, but he is prone to be gushing in his praise. How could you expect Chris to get published a Winter-esque report in the Echo. Have you read some of Winter's match reports? Enjoyable and expressive but some-times ludicrous, with a 40-word introduction.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Stu Monty

ChrisB & Chris, I know exactly where you're coming from but to say that someone in a redtop writing for morons using basic english and stupid over the top hyperbole is the equal of a reporter writing eloquently, and with complicated use of language, is in my opinion wrong.

Writing is an art. It's like saying that Girls aloud are the equal of Radiohead or Pink Floyd because they aim at an audience that knows nothing about sophisticated music.

Not saying the redtop writers can't do it. Just that if they don't then they can't hold thier writing up against the broadsheets.

Comments?

Someone just doesn't start out at the telegraph you know Stu, It's a long arduous process to get there...and don't fucking patronise me with that "writing is an art" line.

I was so proud of this eloquent writing style I had developed during Uni...I'd worked really hard on it, and all of a sudden in my first job it was completely pulled to pieces.

Writing for the tabloids is a hard, hard skill...it takes time to completely redesign your style. Keeping things simple, concise and precise is a lot harder than having the page at your mercy to decorate as you wish.

Having to express well yourself with only a limited vocabulary at your disposal is therefore a much harder skill.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Chris

Someone just doesn't start out at the telegraph you know Stu, It's a long arduous process to get there...and don't fucking patronise me with that "writing is an art" line.

I was so proud of this eloquent writing style I had developed during Uni...I'd worked really hard on it, and all of a sudden in my first job it was completely pulled to pieces.

Writing for the tabloids is a hard, hard skill...it takes time to completely redesign your style. Keeping things simple, concise and precise is a lot harder than having the page at your mercy to decorate as you wish.

Having to express well yourself with only a limited vocabulary at your disposal is therefore a much harder skill.

Chris, I'm sure you're right - and far be it for me to tell you about your own job; as a teacher every other fucker I meet has got an opinion on how to change society for the better "if there was some discipline in these schools".

However, Chris B's constant puns and references to anything vaguely Liverpool related in the news at any particular time bug me. I know he's a passionate Red and I trust his opinion about performances and info on behind the scenes issues. I simply do not like his style, which is quite distinct from other writers on the same paper.

[Stu Monty]

I wasn't patronising you but you have to accept that you are "Dumbing down" and that there is a reason it is called that. You are buying into an ethos of not raising the bar but keeping it at a low level so that it panders to people who want that type of simple read.

It must eat at your soul mate, because as you said, you were proud of your intelligent style, and i think you have every right to be, it is using the language to craft something creative.

Nobody wins literary awards for redtop style writing mate, the greats in writing are called the greats because they write eloquently. It's a higher form of writing, that's all i'm saying.

[Beni]

The fact that Chris B still manages to write what you recognise as an inclusionist style yet still adds colour and life to his match reports is testament to his ability.